Author Topic: Surge Protection  (Read 2701 times)

Tom Webber

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Surge Protection
« on: January 27, 2021, 02:25:44 PM »
I have a 2006 Beaver Monterey. It has a Southwire Model 40350RVC Surge Protector/Transfer Switch. I would like to put a Hughes Autoformer Surge Protector at the campground pedestal, giving me information about the power source and high/ low protection. Has anyone done this and would it cause problems for the built-in surge protector/transfer switch?  Any help would be appreciated.
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Surge Protection
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2021, 03:15:40 PM »
I will be receiving on Monday from Amazon:

a 50 amp Hughes Autoformer (RV220-50SP Voltage Booster with Surge Protection) and

a 50 amp Hughes Surge Protector (PWD50-EPO Power Watchdog Smart Bluetooth Surge Protector Plus EPO with Auto Shutoff with bluetooth).


I plan to place them in series at the pedestal with the RV220-50SP first in line.

I watched a video on the Hughes website that advised about how to hook them up.

The cost delivered to our home in the Foothills of Yuma is $941 including AZ sales tax.  I would add that what prompted this purchase was the fact our 50 amp Progressive Surge Protector had been acting up from time to time over the past several years and it finally just quit working last week.
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Bryan Beamon

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Re: Surge Protection
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2021, 06:25:45 PM »
Tom, we use the Hughes Auto former when voltage is low along with an external Southwire 50 amp surge protector. You can use the Hughes voltage booster but it is not an active surge protector,  in other words it will not monitor  and shut down if voltage is low or unsafe. Your built in Southwire transfer switch will actively monitor voltage and give your coach protection. The Hughes Auto Former will give you another layer of protection and sacrifice if a major electrical event happens.
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Bryan Beamon

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Re: Surge Protection
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2021, 07:36:56 PM »
Tom, just a little clarification of the Hughes Auto former. It does have surge protection but does it through a series of lights which indicates if the voltage is safe but will not actively monitor voltage but will self sacrifice. Attached is a copy of instructions.
C & Bryan Beamon
2006  to present
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1996 to 2006 97 Beaver Patriot Camden

Tom Webber

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Re: Surge Protection
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2021, 11:50:17 PM »
I may have used the wrong terminology. I am looking to purchase the Hughes product that checks for correct wiring at the pedestal and also shuts down if voltage is too high or low. It also has an app that sends messages to your smart phone.

I have read where the Hughes product that boasts voltage is illegal in some states and also some campgrounds will tell you to remove. I have no personal knowledge of this just what I have read.
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Gene Obie

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Re: Surge Protection
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2021, 04:34:15 AM »
I use both the internal Surge Guard 4250 along with an external Surge Guard 34951 w/ remote BT display without any apparent issue so far. I debated whether I needed the remote wireless display (wished they would just have a BT app) but I really like being able to monitor power when I'm on 15A or 30A service without having to fire up Aladdin.

Was also looking at getting Autoformer and surprised on the comment they may be banned. I found this article.. https://rvtailgatelife.com/future-rv-autotransformers/#:~:text=Most%20RV%20campground%20electrical%20systems,RVs%2C%20including%20smaller%20electrical%20demands.&text=A%20popular%20RV%20autotransformer%20is,prohibit%20the%20use%20of%20autotransformers.

To be honest it's a little irritating. If campground and parks have low voltage under load they obviously have a distribution problem and should fix it. If the voltage is 10V low then that extra power is already getting dissipated by heat in their network so they've already got a problem. Granted the autoformer makes the situation even worse by drawing more current. Park I stayed at a few weeks ago knew they had corrosion and voltage drops in their system and were either too cheap or lazy to fix it. So regulatory agencies should spend their efforts making sure providers power distribution networks can provide the voltage per established line limits at the rated current rather than banning some piece of equipment designed to fix the problem. I may still buy one rather than burn up my stuff.
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Bryan Beamon

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Re: Surge Protection
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2021, 03:19:32 PM »
Tom & Gene, we have used the Hughes Auto Former ( 3 different  up grades) for 22 years while full timing and had one campground not allowing us to use the Auto Former. Tom you already have active surge protection built in to transfer switch. By adding the new Hughes surge protector at the pedestal you gain the notification feature with your smartphone but duplicate your surge protection. I have herd some comments that surge protection at the pedestal will protect your power cord , others on the forum here might advise on this concept.
C & Bryan Beamon
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2007 Contessa 42ft Cat C-9 400hp
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Eric Maclean

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Re: Surge Protection
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2021, 03:48:52 PM »
Gene
I agree the whole brown out problem is caused by design factored in the campground power grid .
As the article states that many of these campgrounds where designed back when 30 amp single A/C units where the norm.
In many cases as the industry changed and more and more RVs after using 50 amp services the campground's simply added 50 amp outlets to a grid system not engineered to handle the load and this works fine for the most part as long as the amp draw or load on that grid is kept below the original design limits. The problem arises when enough people turn on multiple A/C units and the collective draw / load exceeds the design limits of the weakest part of the grid usually a main feed wire undersized or connections mechanically not capable of handling the current. When that happens the over load turns the systems weakest link into a heating element and results in volt drop at the end user as that heat is generated. remembering that the longer any given wire is the larger that wire has to be to carry the same amperage this is a problem in campgrounds as they covers lot of ground .
 
The real problem is not the auto former as it Only converts amps to voltage and can not draw any more than the 50 amp breaker at the park pedistal can provide .
The problem is the campground wiring can not provide collectively 50 amps to the park pedistal all at the same time , in other words the park grids are under engineered .
This is an industry wide problem as the electrical codes are set as minimum codes and as money is always a factors when the contractor installs a system he works within the guidelines set out in the minimum code requirements. Unfortunately those guidelines don't stand up to the type of use a campground demands and the problem is only going to get worse as rigs use more energy why now there are even rigs with 100 amp setups which campground owners are going to try to accommodate the question for them is on an already heavily stressed grid where and how do you simply and cost effectively just add a couple of hundred amp services ? You can see the problem when money is allowed to dictate the out come the end result is always inferior.
To accomplish the task of wiring a campground property many factors have to be taken into account and one of the big ones is the distances and volt drop .
The truth is if they were wired properly there would be no issues the fact that there are issues is evidence to poor code requirements and or poor code enforcement.
 banning autoformers does not address the problem it just allows for the status quo to live on .

As an RVer the question is how many rigs have suffered failures caused by poor park power knowing that more than 90% of air-conditioning unit failures are directly related to low voltage issues.
It makes me wonder if the only way to improve the status quo is through litigation after all when you pay extra for a 50 amp service would you not expect to receive a properly functioning 50 amp service and not have to worry about bad plugs, improperly wired plugins or low voltage supply.
If they do ban the autoformers the only alternative you really have is a good EMS unit to protect your unit from park power problems.

It's a harsh reality that park power is at best a crap shoot and the authorities have no interest in seeing it fixed.
Hope this is not too depressing.
Eric
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 04:02:48 PM by Eric Maclean »
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