1998 Patriot Crank/No Start

[Bill Drout]

Hi Eric,
  I talked to Anna at 1 Engine Control a couple of times on the phone to make sure they had the information they needed.  She was very helpful and took time to answer all of my questions.  Apparently all they need is the engine serial number, but they do have my email and phone number in case they need to contact me.  I also explained that I wasn't trying to do anything custom.  I want the ECM to work just like it did before. 

  Apparently most ECM repairs can be performed without programming/reprogramming.  It sounds like there are some discrete components within the ECM that can be replaced without impacting other parts of the ECM.  I guess the memory portion of the ECM is not usually the part that fails. 

  One of the benefits of going with 1 Engine Control is that they will preserve a copy of my ECM config file once they have it fixed.  They will also send me a copy for me to keep.  I hope the ECM never dies again, but if it does at least I'll have some more tools and information at my disposal.  They can also overnight me a replacement ECM if I'm ever stranded.
 
  Duly noted on keeping up with those stands and bushings.  I kept track of them along with which corner they came off of so I can put them back in the same spot they came from. 

Thanks again!

[Carl Boger]

Bill,

Your service bay is almost exactly like mine, but I have two more air bleeds.  I am not sure why, but I included a picture in case it is helpful to anyone in the future. Good luck with your ECM and let us know how it all works out.   

[Eric Maclean]

Bill
It's always a good idea to keep a clone file of the ECM programing as sometimes there are suttle differences even between like models horse power torque etc. Not to mention things like fan control or pto programming that's the reason a clone file becomes important as it allows you to return to the original programming if something catastrophic happens to the ECM.
And as you said it's nice to have a copy of that at the ECM supplier in case you have problems on the road somewhere.
Hope all goes well.
Keep us posted
Eric

[Bill Drout]

Hi Carl,
   That's really interesting.  Our service bays are very similar, but you have an on/off switch and I do not.  And you have those extra air valves.  Does your coach have an air dump button on the dash? 

   One other question since it's in the picture: The green power light on my Racor Fuel/Water separator is always on.  The only way I know of to shut it off is to disconnect the battery.  That doesn't seem right to me.  Is that the way yours behaves too?

[Carl Boger]

I do have a air dump on the dash, and the light does not stay on,but then again I have never noticed it being on.  I guess I'll have to check it out the nest time I crank it.

[Bill Drout]

The ECM got to 1 Engine Control, and they are saying that the unit does need to be reprogrammed.  I do not have a copy of the parameter file, so (as Eric mentioned) they are now asking me a bunch of questions, some of which I do not know the answer to.  Attached is the form.  The rebuilder said they could take the engine serial number and set to defaults.

Does anyone know if Beaver made any customizations to the parameters for the coach?

Does anyone know of another 98 Patriot owner that might have a copy of their parameter file?  I'm wondering if it makes more sense to start with that than to take engine defaults. 

Thanks!

[Carl Boger]

I am sure Eric, or Fred can answer you more accurately, but I don't think Beaver, or Safari varied from the Caterpillar settings.  I do know that you could get a 300 hp or a 330 hp option.  Mine has the 330 hp engine. 

I could not open the attachment, but that could just be my computer, so I don't know if there is any more questions I could answer.

[Bill Lampkin]

I know that our own Dave Atherton has 'pulled' engine parameters from his CAT computer using the engine serial #. Perhaps a call to Dave is indicated. Or a CAT dealer could do the same, but its gonna cost you some scratch!

[Bill Drout]

I called the rebuilder.  Apparently they had overlooked my serial number that I had sent with the ECM.  I gave it to them again along with the coach VIN and mentioned that it came out of an RV and not a truck.  Apparently that was all they needed.

Attached is the technician check list that has some comments about what was found.  It doesn't say much besides "Faulty Battery" and "Bad data line".  I guess the ECM has a battery?

The document doesn't give much insight into why the unit malfunctioned, and that's unfortunate.  I'm trying to determine if the failure was self-inflicted, and if so, how to avoid a repeat.

[Gene Obie]

I wonder if your issue is related to this thread. http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php?topic=563.0

Now thinking I should check my c13 ECM to make sure it has necessary updates.

[Eric Maclean]

Bill
As you said the report doesn't give you much to go by.
It appears the ECM suffered an internal power supply failure.
With out a power supply the processor won't come to life and therefore there will be not activity available for serial stream data and of course not data buss activity so no data can be extracted via the diagnostic link as it is connected to the data buss.
This explains why the report states no data and hence fault codes and of course no access to the programming.

As for the cause of the failure this is the kind of think you would expect from a reverse polarity , voltage spike or run away voltage it's the type of failure that can be caused over time as the result of a reoccurring stress such as a voltage spike caused by a defective or missing clamping diode or resistor on a relay circuit allowing the collapsing magnetic field of the relay coil to create a voltage  spike.
Before reinstalling your new ECM check your inverter charge voltages as well as any solar charge controler voltages.
As you have already tested the powers and grounds to the ECM so we know there shouldn't be any reverse polarity issues.
Once you get it up and running make sure to check the alternator change voltage as well.
Also check and clean the ECM ground strap as well as the ground connections at the back of the starter and any engine to frame ground cables.
ECMs don't like dirty or noisey power that's why most ECM power is supplied straight from the battery as the battery works as a capacitor /shock absorber to reduce electrical noise.
 
With a working ECM you should be good to go.
Hope this helps
Eric

[Dave Atherton]

Gentlemen, may I suggest your problem No start could be number one let’s go to pin 70
Red wire that is on/off off key switch. This red wire provides 12 volt from key on/off direct to the ecm
Lower left corner on J-1 cable data to front of motorhome.  Before going deeper at the ECM power
Let’s disconnect the IAP sensor from engine wiring along intake manifold wire loom. What you are looking for is a triangle connector connected to a 15 inch pig tail that connects the IAP sensor to
engine. With the IAP sensor disconnect try to start engine, if engine starts and runs the IAP sensor
Is bad and needs replacement. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[David T. Richelderfer]

IAP sensor - Intake Air Pressure sensor?

[Dave Atherton]

Gentlemen the sensor IAP sensor ( injection actuation pressure sensor ) has a 15 pigtail to
Triangle connector. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Eric Maclean]

Bill
 from a little bit of research I've done I've discovered that the ecms or cat ECMs do have an internal battery
 the internal battery were first put into use in 1993 to maintain power to new type of memory' chip eprom or (erasable programmable read-only memory ) this memory contains programming and calibrations .
when the battery goes dead everything can continue to work fine until the vehicle battery goes dead or is disconnected once that happens there's nothing to maintain the eprom's memory and you lose your programming it would appear this is what's happening in your case.

Hope this helps
Eric