Author Topic: Getting my CAT Engine work done.  (Read 4385 times)

Ron Davis

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Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« on: April 06, 2021, 08:25:56 PM »
Update.....
I was able to get her to start, clean fuel in both filters and the Winn clear bowl.... and clean fuel coming from a 5gal can.
Took 4 or 5 x 15 second cranks and and pause for 15 and she started ,   Ran about 3 minutes and I turned her off manually as it didn’t look to be pulling more fuel from my can.   9 I had primed up the hose leading in to the can, but prob not good enough to get a vacuum.  Anyways a couple min later I restarted her with only 1 x 15 second crank..... only a lil gray smoke on the very first start.   She then ran for about 4 or 5 minutes before I could tell she was starving for fuel as she had pulled almost all the fuel from the filters.

So my question now is .... am I correct it should create a vacuume and pull in fuel?  Or is there another pump or regulator that would or could be not functioning in my test scenario.   

I feel good she ran seemingly normal once started. 

——update end.


Long story short, some of you may see my posts on FB group also, but we are broke down likely due to overheating and now appears coolant is in the fuel, per evidence of dark green not diesel green, draining from the fuel separator bowl.

 This is a 3126 in a Magnum B chassis.

We also have something going on with air springs possibly from being towed , but likely happen before due to pulling off road a. Very unlevel area...something has caused the driver side to list and those springs not to fill with air....even when tow truck was connected pushing well over 100 psi.

We are north of Phoenix.  Considering either working on some of it myself with parts from Prescott CAT dealer.  I have a pretty good feeling that injector cups is all it will take and that’s all just below the valve cover.  Dave offered a way to preserve the fuel so not to have to drain fuel.  Drop new filters and prime and see if she kicks over.   Thoughts on this, anyone else considered this job?  I also don’t know how to address the air springs issue really at all at the moment.

However I am seriously considering taking Dave A suggestion to tow to Phoenix CAT on 43rd for full repairs.  I did speak to him Monday.

2 things

1, who else has used CAT Phoenix, or others had problems or successes with their service in general or with being full time in your rig.  Getting hotels or places to stay is challenging for us, so looking to spend minimal time outside the rig.

2, what’s typical for folks here , working the CAT vs a direct mechanic.  This guy locally seems to have mostly decent reviews.  There is always a horror story in someone’s closet.  Dave and others have expressed several issues with mechanics in my area, but none good or bad about Premier Diesel or Jeff specifically.   CAT doesn’t really outwardly express themselves the answer to why use their service over your local diesel shop...so looking to more concrete reasons to take the hit of towing to Phoenix and paying the big Dr. bills.  ;-)...  the obvious to me is service warranty across all CAT outlets, but I don’t have experience with that so hoping someone here has and can give it value.

Also open to any other advice anyone has.

Thanks to everyone in advance.
Ron
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 09:32:50 PM by Ron Davis »
1996 Beaver Patriot Trenton
CAT3126 Allison 6sp 3000
Magnum B Chassis
Flat Towing a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

Albert Balika

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2021, 09:57:01 PM »
Ron, I have used Empire Cat in Phoenix for parts only, but have also consulted with their service department on various issues. They have always been helpful. I would weigh the high cost at the dealer vs. a local mechanic who may spend more time solving your problem(s) plus the added cost of lodging while he goes to school working on your rig. Your suspension system is another problem. Massey's Diesel Service, in Phoenix does this kind of work. Tom is the service manager (602 233-1700). He is a real character, likes horses and very engaging. Tell him your dilemma and see if he can work you in. I wish you well.
07 Contessa 42'
C9
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Joel Ashley

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2021, 10:37:37 PM »
I’d take Dave’s advice, Ron.

You may have a torn/broken “lower rubber isolator” on the left rear ride height valve linkage.  It’s a frequent malady, and a weak point in the air ride system, but not difficult or time consuming for an experienced tech to resolve.  The rubber boot is usually available at NAPA, but supporting the coach against inadvertent drop is necessary anytime an owner crawls underneath, much less fools with the air system while there.

Haldex Linkage Kit MBI RN10JC

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MBIRN10JC?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Towing&campaign_id=8911645606&adgroup_id=106416389246&adtype=pla&gclid=CjwKCAjwjbCDBhAwEiwAiudBywnlQp2DtwzJmsHMLRDEyrBA8u1K9jOwPfvTf_yWmOCDBzTHKlo32RoC0WkQAvD_BwE&


You should state your coach model and year and engine in your profile or signature, for future respondents’ reference.

Joel
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 10:51:06 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
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Ron Davis

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2021, 02:18:23 AM »
Thank you.  Excellent points and thanks for the pics and description.  I can look for that and see if she broke.
I’ll update my profile, ;-)

I’d take Dave’s advice, Ron.

You may have a torn/broken “lower rubber isolator” on the left rear ride height valve linkage.  It’s a frequent malady, and a weak point in the air ride system, but not difficult or time consuming for an experienced tech to resolve.  The rubber boot is usually available at NAPA, but supporting the coach against inadvertent drop is necessary anytime an owner crawls underneath, much less fools with the air system while there.

Haldex Linkage Kit MBI RN10JC

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MBIRN10JC?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Towing&campaign_id=8911645606&adgroup_id=106416389246&adtype=pla&gclid=CjwKCAjwjbCDBhAwEiwAiudBywnlQp2DtwzJmsHMLRDEyrBA8u1K9jOwPfvTf_yWmOCDBzTHKlo32RoC0WkQAvD_BwE&


You should state your coach model and year and engine in your profile or signature, for future respondents’ reference.

Joel
1996 Beaver Patriot Trenton
CAT3126 Allison 6sp 3000
Magnum B Chassis
Flat Towing a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

Ron Davis

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2021, 02:20:45 AM »
Masseys came up on my radar too... thanks for the background, that helps.

Ron, I have used Empire Cat in Phoenix for parts only, but have also consulted with their service department on various issues. They have always been helpful. I would weigh the high cost at the dealer vs. a local mechanic who may spend more time solving your problem(s) plus the added cost of lodging while he goes to school working on your rig. Your suspension system is another problem. Massey's Diesel Service, in Phoenix does this kind of work. Tom is the service manager (602 233-1700). He is a real character, likes horses and very engaging. Tell him your dilemma and see if he can work you in. I wish you well.
1996 Beaver Patriot Trenton
CAT3126 Allison 6sp 3000
Magnum B Chassis
Flat Towing a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

Eric Maclean

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2021, 05:11:10 PM »
Ron
Replacing the injector cups in your engine requires  special tooling to
A) remove the injectors ( special pry bar type tool)
B) to extract the old injector cups (special tool which expands inside the old cup and pulls the cup out)
C) to clean the mating surface in the block ( special brush)
D) to remove any oil or fuel which gets down into the cylinder when the cup or injectors are removed ( special vacum or suction )
E) to drive the cup back into place  ( special installer )

There are several precautions which should be taken when doing this job number one don't drop anything down into the oil drain hole or into the engine also make sure you get all the oil or fuel out of each of the cylinders before reassembly to avoid hydraulicing the engine and bending connecting rods.
Also pay close attention to the mating surfaces in the cy!under head where the cup O rings seal as they can get rust pitted and make sealing difficult or impossible requiring the head to be removed machined or replaced.
The O rings must be lubed well to avoid cutting them on the reinstall and of course all the injectors should get new o rings aswell.

Depending on your mechanical skill level this is a job that you might or might not want to tackle your self.
Hope this helps
Eric
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 05:19:29 PM by Eric Maclean »
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
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Dave Atherton

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2021, 09:22:10 AM »
Ron, I would suggest in not trying to do the job yourself, we used to replace injectors cups in the field. Now that has been moved to a caterpillar shop where engine head is removed and injector cups installed. Again I would suggest buying what is called a loaded head ( reman ) and have caterpillar
service install new reman head. Trust me this is more involved than you may think even if you can
get your hands on special tooling. Sometimes we may feel ( I can do this job myself ) my answer
with due respect let a trained caterpillar mechanic repair your engine. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Roy Warren Co-Admin

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2021, 01:49:10 AM »
Ron,
You might want to try to contact Dave Atherton to get your work done.  I don't know if he will do it, but he is a trained CAT mechanic and is in Quartzsite.  He is knowledgeable and is a constant input to our club saving the member hundreds of dollars per year if they follow his advice.
Roy Warren
Roy Warren
2005 Patriot Thunder
Cat C-13
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Bob Disney

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2021, 03:01:16 PM »
There is a very good and honest suspension service shop in Gilbert Az. (east metro Phoenix )
They work on any suspension problems you may have.
I had some problems getting our Beaver to ride correctly, was told by my mechanic the track arm bushing was shot and needed replaced.
I made a appointment with SpecTrac showed up and expected a big bill to get our coach fixed.
After an hour inspection that was required prior to work being done per their standard procedure, the suspension only required adjustment by a trained professional, absolutely no parts were needed.
I questioned this, so they put the coach back on the rack and showed me how there was no worn parts. 
They checked everything ball joints air bags tie rod ends and all other parts as well as adjustment.
They go over the whole suspension and rate each part for wear. Ours was basically like new.
The coach ride is now everything I could hope for.
I was ready to drop a couple grand and got out of there for a couple hundred bucks.
I can not say enough good about how well they took care of us.
This is by far one of the best shops I have ever dealt with.
They work on all kind of large road vehicles. Trucks, buses ect.

Spectrac
405 East Baseline Road
Gilbert AZ.
480-545-5533
2005 Monterey Ventura IV
(the Beave)
just fits in the 40' shed
400hp C9 Cat
Towing various old Jeeps
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Ron Davis

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2021, 09:33:49 PM »
Update added to OP...  Thanks to all who have given excellent advice.
1996 Beaver Patriot Trenton
CAT3126 Allison 6sp 3000
Magnum B Chassis
Flat Towing a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

Ron Davis

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2021, 12:19:31 AM »
I got her to start, is my diagnosis different if she runs with good fuel?

Ron, I would suggest in not trying to do the job yourself, we used to replace injectors cups in the field. Now that has been moved to a caterpillar shop where engine head is removed and injector cups installed. Again I would suggest buying what is called a loaded head ( reman ) and have caterpillar
service install new reman head. Trust me this is more involved than you may think even if you can
get your hands on special tooling. Sometimes we may feel ( I can do this job myself ) my answer
with due respect let a trained caterpillar mechanic repair your engine. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
1996 Beaver Patriot Trenton
CAT3126 Allison 6sp 3000
Magnum B Chassis
Flat Towing a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

Eric Maclean

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2021, 04:28:25 PM »
Ron
If the injector cups are still leaking then  no the diagnoses hasn't changed.
What happens after you shut the engine down the pressure from the hot cooling system stays at what ever the pressure campus set at and the fuel pressure drops to zero at this point if the cup O rings are leaking antifreeze migrates int the fuel system .
How ever when the engine is running the fuel pressure will be higher than the coolant pressure and fuel can migrate the other way into the coolant the antifreeze in the fuel or fuel in the coolant are a symptom of the problem.
Hope this helps
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
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Ron Davis

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2021, 04:13:21 AM »
Not disagreeing however maybe it’ll drive down to CAT dealer for a solid diagnosis, vs a tow?

Ron
If the injector cups are still leaking then  no the diagnoses hasn't changed.
What happens after you shut the engine down the pressure from the hot cooling system stays at what ever the pressure campus set at and the fuel pressure drops to zero at this point if the cup O rings are leaking antifreeze migrates int the fuel system .
How ever when the engine is running the fuel pressure will be higher than the coolant pressure and fuel can migrate the other way into the coolant the antifreeze in the fuel or fuel in the coolant are a symptom of the problem.
Hope this helps
Eric
1996 Beaver Patriot Trenton
CAT3126 Allison 6sp 3000
Magnum B Chassis
Flat Towing a 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited

Eric Maclean

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 02:09:51 PM »
Yes it should be no problem but  just keep an eye on the water separator as the fuel tank lilly has more coolant in it.
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
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Christian Fish

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Re: Getting my CAT Engine work done.
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2021, 06:52:27 PM »
Thanks Joel for posting the picture of the height controller. I just broke my front one and this will help the shop order parts.
2005 Beaver Monterey Ventura III 36'
Cat C-9 400hp
2013 F-150 Toad