Slide wouldn't stay closed

[Joel Weiss]

I'm posting this because I searched and couldn't find any posts on slides not staying closed (not extended) for Beavers in model years ~2000.  We have a 2000 Patriot Thunder Princeton which has a large (~16 ft) living room/kitchen slide which decided to open on its own as we approached Sioux Falls SD yesterday.  By the time we reached our CG it had extended several inches despite several stops to retract it.  

The posts I could find here related to post-2003 models with HWH hydraulics and discussed "leaky solenoids."  I have RVA levelers with the front slide integrated into that system.  I have a few pages of documentation on the RVA stuff, but only a few useless sentences relating to the slide which don't even mention that it is run from the RVA pump (the front slide at least).   As far as I can tell there are no solenoids to leak in this system; instead what we found was a ruptured hydraulic line running from the pump to the slide actuator.  In case this happens to you, note that the lines run through the storage area along the frame rail and things can get rather messy (the shop used a wet vac to remove more than a gallon of it)!  We decided it was preferable to bypass and replace both hoses rather than attempt to run new hoses through the original path through the chassis.

The repair was not overly complex, once the leak was pinpointed.  The pump and reservoir are located inboard of the engine control panel in the rearmost passenger-side bay. The reservoir for the RVA system is rather awkward to fill which makes the job messier than it ought to be; it is small compared to the system volume so it will take several fills by the time air in the system has been gotten rid of.   There are valves for purging air from the jack hoses but not the slide.  Apparently, the intent is that the jacks and slide be "self purging" which is a stretch; we are still cycling them to get rid of the last of the air in the system.

[Larry Fritz]

Joel, I too had the same problem that you had only when my line broke it spewed the fluid into the cargo bay ruining a bunch of stuff as we were full timers at that time.  I fixed it like you did and all is well now.  If you have one of the $5 push transfer pumps, it is much easier to get fluid into that RVA reservoir.  Anyway, sorry for your problem but you are not alone.

Our slide is so hard to move (even with the pressure lines removed) that I needed a pipe extension on a 3/4" socket drive set to inch it back in.  I think at the repair facilities, they take a bunch of people and push at the same time to help it go in.

Larry Fritz
98 Patriot 37'

[Joel Ashley]

Thanks for offering the information, Joel.  It will likely benefit others with similar slide engineering, so I hope, as the thread originator, you added tags to your post for easy searches.

-Joel A.

[Joel Weiss]

Thanks for offering the information, Joel.  It will likely benefit others with similar slide engineering, so I hope, as the thread originator, you added tags to your post for easy searches.

-Joel A.

I just added them; thanks for the suggestion.

[Joel Weiss]

Joel, I too had the same problem that you had only when my line broke it spewed the fluid into the cargo bay ruining a bunch of stuff as we were full timers at that time.  I fixed it like you did and all is well now.  If you have one of the $5 push transfer pumps, it is much easier to get fluid into that RVA reservoir.  Anyway, sorry for your problem but you are not alone.

Our slide is so hard to move (even with the pressure lines removed) that I needed a pipe extension on a 3/4" socket drive set to inch it back in.  I think at the repair facilities, they take a bunch of people and push at the same time to help it go in.

Larry Fritz
98 Patriot 37'

We also had a gallon or so of fluid in the cargo bay.  We're also full-timers, but were fortunate that most of things in the area of the leak could be salvaged.  The shop used a wet vac to remove the excess fluid from the cargo bay.  

We were also fortunate in that the slide actually continued to work until we were in the shop.  Presumably, the leak was small so enough pressure could be generated to move it, but not enough to prevent it from creeping open.  This also made it difficult to diagnose the problem, because it presented as "air in the lines with low fluid".  We kept bleeding the lines and adding fluid, but there were no leaks (at least none that showed).  It took a while before we saw fluid on the ground (and even more in the bay).  It was a mess, but at least we felt better, after we had found the source of the problem.

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

I too had the same problem but the burst in the hose was in the engine area where it was easier to clean up. It seems that Beaver had received a bad batch of hose that broke down over time. Beaver Coach Sales recommended replacing that hose with a 5000psi instead of the 2500psi that was standard. That's what I did myself. To bleed the system I broke each line loose at the slave cylinder and had my wife cycle the switch until fluid only came out. I then tightened the hose fitting. Has been fine for 2 years now. I would suggest that anyone having a Beaver of 2000-2002 vintage with the kitchen slide, check the hydraulic lines for bubbles on the outer rubber layer. If so, replace the lines now before they burst.
Marty

[Joel Weiss]

I have follow-up question--

I recognize that the RVA warning light has two functions, one is to show that a jack is down and the other is to indicate is low on fluid.  I have the data sheet from RVA explaining that the reservoir should be filled with one jack down about 6 inches.

After our repair I now see that when I extend my front slide and then go to lower the jacks I find that the warning light is already on when I activate the RVA system even BEFORE I lower any of the jacks.  In my limited understanding of hydraulic systems I assume that some fluid is being "taken" from the reservoir to drive the slide's hydraulic ram.  The light does go off normally when the slide comes back in.  

I'm planning on going to NAPA to get some ATF fluid and a pump to use to put it into the reservoir, but I wanted to get people's reactions as to whether anyone thinks I have an issue to be concerned with.  There is no indication of a leak anywhere and the behavior I describe seems totally reproducible.  I also know there's still a little air in the system, the RVA literature says the jack system is serf-purging so I have assumed that would work its way out over time.   I assume it's possible that the fluid level is down a little because some of the air bubbles have been displaced.

[Gerald Farris]

Joel,
The kitchen slide should not lower the hydraulic reservoir because the ram that moves it is a double acting cylinder. By that I mean that the ram is always completely full of fluid and as the slide moves in or out the pump just adds pressure to one side of the piston and vents the other side of the piston to the reservoir. Therefore there is no loss of fluid from the reservoir, but if the ram has air in it that will compress under pressure there will be some decrease in reservoir volume.

Gerald

[Joel Weiss]

Thanks for the quick response.  I probably have an air bubble on one side of the ram so that the fluid level is normal when it is retracted and slightly low when extended.  I'll keep working on bleeding the air; I did buy a small pump and hose to make it easier to get fluid into the reservoir!

[Dick Simonis]

This is good info and I'm trying to wrap my head around the hydralic system.  Let me see if I have this straight.

We have a single hydralic pump (12 VDC?) and resovoir that supply both the front slide and the 3 leveling jacks.  For the slide, we would have 2 HP hoses (one for open and one for close) along with a LP return.  Or does one HP hose act as a return when the other is actuated??

The jacks being fluid to extend and spring to return would have only one HP hose each??

All of the hose should be rated for 5,000 lbs?? and if my count is correct, there should be 5 of them.

Associated with each cylinder where would be a 12 VDC solonoid valve operated by their respective switches.

If needing repacement, would the proper way to do the job be to pull all the hoses and take them to a shop first to get the lengths correct?

Natrually all this stuff is fairly inaccesable??

I seem to recall that Beaver coach also mentioned that this whole assembly also suppiies power to the hydralic steering or is it only a common resvoir??

So far all I've found is the tank.  Guess I need to crawl around underneath and start looking for hoses and check the pressure ratings.

[Gerald Farris]

Dick,
There are a few errors in your last post.  First there is no return hose on the ram (cylinder) for the front slide.  There are two pressure hoses that act as pressure and return, depending on which direction the slide is moving.  Therefore, if the pressurized hose develops a leak, there is nothing to hold the slide in position.

The other thing is the assumption that the steering is somehow connected to the leveling system.  The power steering and engine cooling fan are powered by an engine driven pump, that has its own hydraulic reservoir. The two systems have no connection with each other.

Gerald  

[Dick Simonis]

Dick,
There is a few errors in your last post. First there is no return hose on the ram (cylinder) for the front slide. There are two pressure hoses that act as pressure and return, depending on which direction the slide is moving. Therefore if the pressurized hose develops a leak, there is nothing to hold the slide in position.

The other thing is the assumption that the steering is somehow connected to the leveling system. The power steering and engine cooling fan are powered by an engine driven pump that has its own hydraulic reservoir. The two systems have no connection with each other.

Gerald  

OK, I thought that might be the case, but my mind is still in data overload.  Is the hose upgrade recommendation also apply to the engine driven hydraulic system??  

Now to find the reservoir for that system.

[Gerald Farris]

There have been no problems with the engine driven hydraulic system hoses, that I know of, as long as they are not rubbing on anything. So I would not recommend changing those hoses, unless they are damaged by contact with a part of the coach or another hose.

Changing all of the hoses to the jacks will be a lot of work and may be more trouble than it is worth, since they fail infrequently. However, I would recommend changing both slide hoses, if you have a problem with one of them, but I find it hard to recommend changing hydraulic hoses as a preventative maintenance, if you can find nothing wrong with them.  Remember that if a hydraulic hose has been rubbing on something, and the steel reinforcing wires are exposed and damaged, change the hose because it will fail.

I think that the reservoir for the engine driven hydraulic system is in the right rear bay on a 2000 Thunder.

Gerald  

[Larry Fisk]

So true Gerald, I had that very thing happen on the hose for the radiator cooling fan. When it blew it sprayed hydraulic oil all over the engine. we were very fortunate that it did not become a fire and burn up our coach, lots of white smoke though. Once that happens you will will not have any hydraulics including power steering. Not Fun! I now check my hoses often and have used radiator hose tie wraped to places they can rub to try and prevent this from happening again. So, as Gerald said, check those hoses!

[Joel Weiss]

If needing repacement, would the proper way to do the job be to pull all the hoses and take them to a shop first to get the lengths correct?

Natrually all this stuff is fairly inaccesable??

The shop that was doing our slide repair decided, and I agreed, that it was simpler to leave the old hoses in place and to thread new ones along the frame rails.  The original hoses were installed during vehicle construction and would be very difficult to remove or directly replace.  We blew them dry and left them.  We sized the new hoses at 30 ft and probably had a couple of feet excess, but better too long than too short!