Author Topic: Engine Cooling Issues  (Read 8527 times)

Karl Welhart

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 226
  • Thanked: 60 times
Engine Cooling Issues
« on: September 09, 2011, 04:52:59 PM »
My 2002 Patriot 3126e with a rear radiator pulling a Jeep Liberty up the Colorado mountain passes (10,000+) pushes 215-217 degrees (coolant temp) on the Silverleaf.  I have replaced thermostats, cleaned both sides of radiator regularly and disconnected the Edge performance device.

Anyone have thoughts on getting better cooling?  Can this radiator be removed easily to clean between them?  Can a bigger or different style radiator solve this problem?

Thanks,

Karl
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 03:37:00 AM by 14 »
Karl and Nancy Welhart, F36017
2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP (2014-current)
2002 Patriot (2002-2014)
1997 Monterey (1997-2002)
Niceville, Florida

Gerald Farris

  • Guest
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2011, 05:34:02 PM »
Karl,
You did not say what RPMs you were running while you were climbing the mountain pass. The optimum cooling conditions for your coach will be achieved if you gear your coach down so that you are running at 2000+ RPMs when you are climbing a mountain pass. This elevated RPM level will increase the coolant flow as well as the fan speed so that the cooling system can dissipate much more heat and allow the engine to operate cooler.

As for your question on removal of the radiator to clean it, sometimes it can be necessary, although complete removal will take several hours and be quiet expensive. Any benefits from replacing the radiator will be limited because there is very limited room for a larger radiator, and it will be expensive.

Gerald

Karl Welhart

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 226
  • Thanked: 60 times
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 01:41:36 AM »
Gerald,

I would always run at between 2,000 and 2,200 rpm up an incline of this type.  Another issue related to this is the way this coach transmission fluid is cooled.  It appears that transmission fluid goes through a round cylinder shaped heat transfer canister located under the radiator.  Not sure if this is the only transmission cooler or not but does not seem as effective as other coolers.  My transmission temp is getting up to 220 on these long hill climbs.

Upon inspection of the radiator after cleaning, I would estimate about 75-80% of the area is clear and can see through.  Would that other 25-30% area give me the additional cooling that I need for these hill climbs?

Thanks,

Karl
Karl and Nancy Welhart, F36017
2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP (2014-current)
2002 Patriot (2002-2014)
1997 Monterey (1997-2002)
Niceville, Florida

Gerald Farris

  • Guest
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 03:14:42 AM »
Karl.
The round cylinder shaped object that you referred to is the transmission cooler. It is in the coolant flow as the coolant leaves the radiator to return to the engine. The transmission cooler is located there to maintain a more even temperature of the transmission fluid. An air to air transmission cooler would probably be more efficient, however an air to air cooler would overcool the fluid on cold days and result in the transmission fluid running to cold which can be as bad on the transmission as to hot.

If you have 20% to 25% of the radiator that has restricted air flow, that is enough loss of cooling capacity to cause elevated coolant temperatures when your engine is operating at full throttle.

Gerald    

LarryNCarolynShirk

  • Guest
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 03:34:46 AM »
On my '98 Patriot with a 3126 Cat, the best solution was to change to Transynd transmission fluid.  Both the engine and transmission ran about 15 degrees cooler afterward.  Previous to that, I routed the engine blow-by tube aft of the radiator to keep the dirt catching oil fumes away from the radiator, installed a 9 blade fan, and a smaller pulley, to make the fan turn faster.  None of those helped as much as the Transynd.  It was well worth the money.

Larry

Karl Welhart

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 226
  • Thanked: 60 times
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 04:27:21 AM »
I will change to Transynd when i get back to my home base.  I have been using a synthetic blend for several years, but perhaps a full synthetic will make some difference.  Additionally, I will move the blow-by tube behind the radiator.

However, the blockage issue concerns me more than anything.  The blockage is in the lower portion of the radiator and must be dirt collecting between the air cooler and the radiator.  Even after several major cleanings, the blockage is still present.  I guess the only solution is removing the radiator, then cleaning between them.  

Has anyone used a viscous or electric fan clutch?
Karl and Nancy Welhart, F36017
2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP (2014-current)
2002 Patriot (2002-2014)
1997 Monterey (1997-2002)
Niceville, Florida

Edward Buker

  • Guest
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 04:45:35 AM »
I would try everything possible as an alternative to removing the radiator. Would it be possible to use a metal tubed blow off device with regulated low pressure air to move the debris? Some are quite long and are used in the automotive paint shops during paint prep to blow off dust. The tubes can be bent to accomidate access paths.

Later Ed

Tom and Pam Brown

  • Guest
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2011, 01:19:15 PM »
I have used coil cleaner in the past (foam type) with great success.

Just simply rinse off with a garden hose.  It may take a couple of times to get the desired result.

This is available from the big box home improvement stores.

Joel Ashley

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2446
  • Thanked: 768 times
  • OSU Class of '73, Oregon Native. RVing 40 years
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2011, 06:37:14 PM »
Gerald is certainly right about that last 20%, Karl.  Even 5-10% is a significant loss of cooling exposure when you need every square inch you can get for those hills.  It's common to read in Forums and magazines about coach owners with rear radiators experiencing the oil blow-by problem.  Those complaints were one reason, while shopping 5 years ago, that I ignored all coaches on a dealer lot that didn't have side radiators.  Primarily I mostly wanted easier engine view and access.

The residue sticks in the fins where it attracts dirt.  Even if that combination doesn't plug off inter-fin space entirely, the coating on the fins radically reduces heat exchange.  You're going to have to break up the oil residue with some sort of foaming solvent or at least detergent to get it to release from the fins;  allow it to sit and work, and then try Tom's idea to brush and flush it and its dirt out of there.  As Gerald and Ed say, you don't want to remove the radiator if you can help it.  Ed's blowgun extension is worth a shot for large debris, but likely won't unstick that oil.

Another issue with the blow-by that many complained of was that it also coated their toad.  Seems like some did more than just rerouting the tube, and managed to keep the crud off their car too with further tube modification.  Forgive me, I don't recall what that extra step was, but perhaps others here can proffer input.

Joel
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 06:53:52 PM by 77 »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

LarryNCarolynShirk

  • Guest
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 01:43:57 AM »
Joel,  I tied a sock on the end of the tube with a wire tie.  When it got full, I changed it.  It worked for me.

Larry

Joel Ashley

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2446
  • Thanked: 768 times
  • OSU Class of '73, Oregon Native. RVing 40 years
Re: Engine Cooling Issues
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2011, 04:37:43 AM »
Yup, Larry, that's what I recall others have done.  Ya just have to remember to change the sock.  I reckon when you see stuff on your toad, you'd remember.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat