Turn and hazard lights not working

[Jose Rita]

I have a 2002 Patriot with an electrical gremlin.  After connecting a trailer, I lost turn and hazards lights. Disconnected trailer turn/ hazard lights dont work.   Running lights and brake lights work.  I have been following suggestions from prior posts but nothing so far.  I changed out the flasher relay under dash checked all bulbs and checked the 20 amp breaker in electrical bay (cb4).  All to me appear fine.  I am at a loss, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as we have a trip planned soon.

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Jose,
It sounds like you may have lost 12v to the turn signal and hazard switches. Check terminals 2 & 3 on TB1 in the front electrical bay (L&R Front turn signals) and TB1 13 &14 (L&R Rear Turn and Brake signals).  If you have a switched signal at those terminals the switches are getting power and the problem is between them and the bulbs. Also check around the trailer connector for a possible short, etc. in case a wire came loose when you connected the trailer. Not clear to me where fuse (if any) would be located. Also, check the bulbs to be sure you don't have a bulb that is shorted to ground. Disconnecting the connector at the fixture should accomplish this.  Diagrams for 2002-03 Patriot are in Coach Assist on the BAC Club website.
Steve

[Eric Maclean]

Jose
The ha zards and turn signals are both controlled through the turn signal switch in the steering column.
First thing to do is trace the power path from the beaker to the turn signal switch .
Use the wiring diagrams found in the coach assist section as a guide to help you determine the power path.

With that said the turn signals switches have a habit of developing problems with the hazard switch which will over ride the turn signal portion of the switch.
But before I went down that rabbit hole I would make sure I had power to the turn signal switch harness plug at the base of the steering column.

Hope this helps
Eric

[Eric Maclean]

Jose
I believe the 2002 coaches did not have separate rear turn and brake bulbs which means the brake and turn signals both use the same bulb and there fore the same wiring to operate them the point being if this is the case if the brake lights work the wiring path from the turn signal switch to the rear of the coach is ok.
The turn signal switch is feed power from the circuit breaker which Steve mentioned earlier through the flasher to the turn signal switch .the brake lights have there own power supply breaker and brake light switch that feed the turn signal switch.
At this point it appears your problem is lose of power to the turn signal feed to the column id suggest checking the breaker first using a 12 volt test light and from there move to the flasher base if you have power at the flasher base temperately bypass the flasher with a piece of wire and see if you can get any light at the turn signals( with either right or left turn signal turned on) of course they won't flash but if they light you have proved the wiring and the switch and that the flasher is faulty.
If this is the problem replace your existing flasher unit with an electronic ( time based flasher ) as they are less suspectable to current / load variation . And make sure there are no shorts in you trailer wiring before trying to plug it back in.

Hope this helps
Eric

[Jose Rita]

I did check terminals 2,3,13 and 14… no power with  turn switch activated. I have 12v power coming up from the flasher breaker to the relay under dash. I have checked continuity to tail lights and front directionals.  Continuity is good and when I supply 12v to them the individual light will come on thru terminals. I was hoping that there would be some hidden 12v fuse somewhere but cant find them. I am looking at the switch on the steering column next.  Not sure how to check it, just looking for obvious stuff.  On  a side note, I had asked my wife if she noticed the directionals working when I connected the trailer; I turned the hazards on and stepped out quickly not paying attention. She was did nit notice.  And, while connecting I was focused on the connector, only looking at the lights afterward…shame on me.  So this problem may be attributed to something other than the trailer connection.

Thank you for the responses

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Jose,
To get the individual lights to come on, where did you supply the 12v?
Steve

[Jose Rita]

Steve, to terminals 2,3, 13 and 14

[Jose Rita]

Steve, solenoid relay has 12v battery power

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

That seems to confirm Eric's input that the turn signal switch is either not getting power or is faulty itself. Check for voltage at the turn signal and hazard switch.
Steve

[Eric Maclean]

Jose
remove the flasher and place a jumper wire in it's place then turn on the signal either direction and check to see if the corresponding turn signal lights up.

[Jose Rita]

Yes, I removed flasher jumped the connection and nothing.  So, at this point, with everyones help I am leaning toward a bad column switch. I will order and replace it.

[Eric Maclean]

Ok Jose
With the jumper inplace disconnect the column switch harness at the base of the column and test to see if you have power there and look for bad or burnt connections.
If you have power there and the connections look good we now go back to the turn signal switch remember what I said about the
Hazzard light switch try to work it on and off several times to see if you can get a connection back in the switch.
If no luck remove the steering wheel and check the turn signal switch itself out .
From your original description it sound like the extra load from plugging in your trailer has caused a poor connection somewhere in the circuit to give up it may be right at the switch .

These switches are not very sophisticated ( a lot of plastic brass rivets and small wires ) any of which could be at fault.
There is a terminal and wiring number chart for the lower column plug in coach assist wiring for 2002 Patriot

Good luck
Eric

[Jose Rita]

Hi Eric, I have spent most of my day trying to figure this out.  I do have power coming into the flasher relay.  From the relay power goes out and splices to two “ flasher out” wires.  These two wires along with wires for the front directionals, back brk and turn directionals and a horn ground wire go to a 8 pin connector at column base.  From that connector at base they go up to switch.  I have power right up to the flasher switch but nothing coming back out of the switch when either hazard or directionals activated.  So I thought switch.  I was able to order one last night and received earlier.  Unfortunately no change…big disappointment.  I noticed while testing switches new and old that, with a test light at switch power, when I activate either hazard or left right directional I lose power at switch.  Power comes back when I disengage switch…confusing.  So as much as I hate giving up, this is beyond me.
I will have to make appointment to bring it in.  Unfortunately for us I am sure that I wont get something next week.  So no trip and taking a hit on the reservations.  Oooh well.  Still gonna keep trying tho, I may get lucky.  But I dont see that happening….lol.
Thank you all for your help. 

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Jose,
You may have a short to ground beyond the switch in the left signal path. The CB may be tripping and then resetting when the ground is removed. I'd first try removing the left signal bulbs and see if power passes thru the flasher switch. If not remove the left signal wires from the turn signal switch. Alternately you check path with an ohm meter. Eric may have an alternate idea.
Steve

[Eric Maclean]

Jose
As Steve pointed out the demand is higher than you power supply is capable of.
If the power goes right to zero immediately when you load it I would suspect a weak link in the system ( a wire or connection or components that can't handle the current)
As Steve pointed out of there is a short down stream of the signal switch a good breaker should give an audible click when it trips
Have someone turn the signals on while you listen closely to the breaker if you don't hear the click move on to step one below .

1) take a jumper wire from another known good circuit breaker output to the output side of breaker which feeds this circuit to make sure you don't just have a bad circuit breaker.
If it works replace the circuit breaker
If no change
2 )take a jumper wire and go from the known good breaker output straight to the feed side of the flasher to eliminate the wire been circuit breaker and flasher as the problem .
If it works repair or replace the wire between the breaker and the flasher base
If still no change
3) leave the afore mentioned in place and now run another jumper wire from the flasher to the power feed wire going up into the column
If they work repair or replace the wire from the flasher base to the column plug
If still no signals
4) connect the two jumper wires together to by pass the flasher and see if the signal lights will light ( they won't flash this way but they should light)
This will eliminate the flasher as a suspect
if they light replace the flasher