AC power problem

[Jeff Watt]

Went for a drive and upon return I have no AC power from shore. Aladdin shows shore power selected and 119v (on a 30 amp). No amps being used.

Inverter monitor shows waiting for AC.

Turned to inverter mode and have AC.

Started Genset and I have AC.

Reset the power shut-off switch at the door a couple of times. Also unplugged and plugged cable in a few times. Checked voltage at pole - 118 or 119. Nothing.

All breakers in coach on an off.

Small reset breaker on inverter does NOT want to stay in. Could this be the issue?

I am inclined to think it may be the Surge Guard (model 40250). Mainly because it is allowing power from Genset to inverter but not from shore. Went on Surgeguard site and they have some troubleshooting tips but it does not look to be really serviceable.


Looking for any suggestions and help.

Thanks.

Jeff

[Joel Ashley]

Messing with the switch at the door could earn you a visit from Ken at BCS and a nasty talking to, even if you are in Manitoba!  If you want to try resetting things, use the main switches over the battery bay.  The door switch was meant only for dealer/salesman use;  I speak from experience that the switch and related components will go haywire if used regularly, and leave you stranded.  Fortunately mine went belly up while I was about to leave BCS one evening, and the guys hung around after hours to repair things.

As to your main issue, I lean to agreeing with your inclination... Likely a fault in the SurgeGuard, though they are usually reliable.  I'll have to beg off on any certainty there though, since electric gremlins have had my goat lately as well.  Often the problem is so obvious that I can't see the tree for the forest in front of me.  Perhaps Ed or Gerald can more ably decipher your symptoms.

Meanwhile, keep the ol' mitts  off the door switch   ??).  It and the battery switches are 12v and likely not related to your problem anyway.

Joel

[Edward Buker]

Seems like it is most likely the transfer switch or power cord causing the problem. If the surgeguard includes the transfer switch components take a look and see if the relays are working properly transfering from shore power to genset power.

Later Ed

[Jeff Watt]

I only used the power switch at the door a couple of times.

I shut the main coach battery switch off in the battery bank and left it off for 5 minutes. Turned on and nothing. Also left the shore power disconnected for 1/2 hour - nothing.

The Surgeguard does have transfer switch components, but I don't know what I am looking at. The genset did provide AC power so the transfer switch seems to work that way.

I guess I'll contact Surgeguard, although on their site the mention that it isn't field serviceable.

It would be nice to know if it is something easily fixable or if it requires a new unit. In which case I can contact the company and have one sent to Anchorage as I am 100 miles from it.

Jeff

[Gerald Farris]

Jeff,
The first thing to check is the continuity on your power cord reel. Monaco used (on most of the coaches in your era) a reel type power cord retrieval system with carbon brush type contacts to brass rings that are mounted to plastic. The plastic melts from contact resistance heating and causes loss of 120V current on one leg going into the transfer switch. Therefore the transfer switch will not connect the coach to shore power because one leg has no power resembling a mis-wired power pedestal.

Gerald

[Jeff Watt]

Gerald,

Thanks for the suggestion. How and Where do I check this - at the surge guard or before at the cord reel?

If it is the problem, can it be repaired or do I need a new unit? An rv shop should be able to repair/ replace even here in Alaska.

I did have a momentary flash on the Aladdin stating open ground but only once for a second or so. The power pedestal is ok. Would the Aladdin show a fault if the cable/reel is the problem?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Edward Buker]

You could check the voltage of the wires coming from the cord reel into the surge guard at the surge guard. There should be screw terminals in the case most likely on a relay. If the voltage is not correct feeding the surge guard then the carbon brush assembly would be an assembly on the hub of the cord reel. As Gerald said that is the likely candidate. You may be able to temporarily disable the reel, take the cord off the reel and connect it directly to the surge guard to get by until you can make repairs more permanently. Just be sure and trace the connections and re connect the wires in the sam manner.

Late Ed

[Jeff Watt]

I Checked the power at the surge guard from shore.

On the input side of surge guard I Have 119v on both legs. Neutral reads 0.3v so I guess that is 0.  I assume.  That means cord is good coming to surge guard.

On the output side of the surge guard contactor /relay it is 0.3, so 0 on both legs and neutral.

The people at surge guard suggested switching the gen cable to the shore contractor and vice versa, to check that scenario, but I am inclined to think it is probably the contactor that has failed.  Now to source one and install.  Possibly an electrical supply or electrician.

Jeff

[Joel Ashley]

Jeff, as an addendum, the same thing happened to me here in Buffalo, WY, tonight.  The park manager and I checked everything out, after Id narrowed it down to at least the 50 amp park outlet.  It turned out to be a bad 50 amp breaker in the park post box.  These breakers get used repeatedly, perhaps daily, like light switches, and they aren't designed for that.... Just for protection and the occasional circuit breaking for safety.  They wear out.



Joel

[Jeff Watt]

I wish it was that simple Joel. The power at the post was good.

SurgeGuard essentially says the units aren't field serviceable, so that it boils down to replacing it. Now, there isn't one to be had in Alaska or the Yukon, so the next option is to have one shipped up......but to where as I am a moving target, also how long to ship and cost and then it would need to installed; either myself (?) or find someone.

As we are at the tail end of our trip and we have good batteries, genset works, and we can be redneck campers, I.e. cord hanging out a window or door if need be to run coffee maker or whatever instead of using the inverter, we probably will try to do without and have one ordered and installed at home. It just means watching power consumption and not using the washer/dryer. Will have to top off the propane as the fridge is running mostly on it.

Big problem is the icemaker won't work without AC   fortunately in this fish crazy part of Alaska, ice is plentiful  

Jeff

[Jeff Watt]

PROBLEM and need comments please,

A little while ago  the xantrex read 88% battery. With no one nearby I thought I'd run the genset for a bit. Didn't take long and it was reading 92%....good.

I then warmed up something in the micro - immediately thereafter the xantrex reading started to drop. My heart was speeding up about as fast as it was falling....finally the xantrex guage read the battery level bottoming out at 76%.

Thn after bottoming in went to bulk charge mode and after 10 minutes it  was at 77%.  

Just checked it is now at 74%!!!!!!!

Aladdin says ac leg2 121v and 17 amp
House battery 14v,
Xantrex says 58-62amp going into batteries

One other thing these are essentially new batteries. I installed before we left and there has only been a couple of times without ac hookups. Would this affect charge status?

Was the xantrex giving me a false reading. We have been very careful with power since the SurgeGuard quit. Driving yesterday the battery showed near full - infact as I have the genset set to shut off 99% it wouldn't stay on.

Jeff

[Gerald Farris]

Jeff,
From your description, it sounds like the state of charge percentages that you were getting from the Aladdin are inaccurate. If you have 120V current to the coach from the generator, there should be no discharge from the batteries if the inverter is charging them. The generator is powering everything in the coach except the 12V lights and the charge rate from the inverter will more than cover that usage.

Gerald

[Jeff Watt]

Gerald,

It wasnt the Aladin giving me the % readings it was the xantrex rc7gs.

Now it has started to charge, but oddly the xantrex is showing 76% BUT it is in absorption charge. The manul states it will go into absorption at 90%. What might be causing this discrepancy?

When I installed the batteries I did not equalize them. Should that have been done? Should it be done now, once they reach full charge? It says to remove vent caps, I assume that means the battery caps?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Gerald Farris]

Jeff,
The Xantrex remote is giving you an estimate of charge state based on how many amps the batteries are taking at a certain voltage. This is just an approximation, so you should not be overly concerned about the reading that you are receiving.

As for your question about equalizing your batteries, don;t. The purpose in equalizing batteries is to remove sulfate deposits from the plates and to reverse stratification. These conditions start to occur in a battery as it is used over time and usually take at least a year to develop, so a new battery should never be equalized.

You remove the battery caps when you equalize a lead/acid battery to reduce the occurrence and volume of acid boil over. You also need to be sure that the battery compartment is very well ventilated.

Gerald

[Jeff Watt]

Thanks Gerald,

We had to go out for awhile so I turned the genset off. At the time it showed absorption charge and 76% SOC.

Almost immediately after turning the genset off, the xantrex meter showed increasing SOC; watched for a couple of seconds and it was 80 when we left. On return it is 100%.

Could this have anything to do with new batteries and very few (2 or 3) discharge and recharge cycles from a low soc starting point?

Thanks again for the insight about equalizing.

Jeff