Types of brakes for towing

[LEAH DRAPER]

As you may already know, there is NO cable attached to the brake arm with the SMI.

[Jeff Watt]

I received the following response from SMI:

"We recommend that the motor to the adjustable pedals be disconnected or the pedals be moved all the way toward the drivers seat when being installed. This will result in you having to move the pedals all the way toward the seat every time you tow. "

So I am still limited by this unit wrt to adjustable pedals and memory settings....I guess it isn't a big deal.

Otherwise the I like the smi unit because the toad brakes don't come on unless the brakes in the coach (not engine brake) are applied, also from SMI:

"You are correct, the AFO cannot engage with the exhaust brake since it requires air to be applied from your brake pedal to activate. "

I believe  with the US Gear (Roadmaster) system the toad brakes come on with the engine brakes. That's ok if they are set up so they aren't trying to brake more than the what the coach is doing; don't need a 4500 lb explorer trying to stop a 40000lb coach  

Jeff

[Jeff Watt]

Follow-up to previous post, in the SMI install manual is the following paragraph which describes use with adjustable pedals.

"Special attention must be given to vehicles with moveable pedals. Check for proper clearance in all positions. When adjusting the cable, be sure that the pedals are positioned closest to the driver’s seat. This will allow normal operation of the adjustable pedals. Be sure to return the pedals closest to the driver’s seat when preparing to tow, or the braking system will not function properly. As an option, the pedals may be moved to the desired position and disabled. Do not depend on the fact that “no one moves them.” "

So I may look into this system more closely as it appears that it works with them provided one remembers to move them forward before towing.

Jeff

[Larry Fisk]

Yes Jeff, I just make it part of my routine to move the pedals all the way back when I'm setting up to tow. When I get ready to disconnect the car I just hit the key fob and the pedals return to their preset state. I too really like the fact that the brakes only activate when I am actually braking. It has worked flawlessly for us. I am very happy with the SMI system.

[Mike Randolph]

Kieth - you didn't mention what year Explorer you were rigging for towing/brakes.  We have a 2012 and 2005 Explorer, both rigged for towing and both 4x4 LTDs.  The older one has a neutral tow switch; while the 2012 is just placed in Accessory position (keyless). I use a Brake Buddy as an auxiliary brake.  In the past, I've had problems with dead batteries, but on the both of them, have a wire from coach chassis battery to Explorer battery (fused and dioded).  While the Explorer itself doesn't have much a draw, I suspect the Brake Buddy cycling off Explorer battery does.  The electric feed seems to solve that problem.


MIke Randolph
2006 Patriot Thunder, 45'

[Jeff Watt]

At the risk of "flogging a dead horse", just another thought/wrinkle in this topic:

I just took delivery of a 2013 Explorer and was planning on moving my USGear (Unified) brake system to it from my 06 Explorer; because of the arrangement with the Ford dealer, I am leaving the braking system in the 06, so I am probably buying a new US Gear system (the coach is already wired and has the controller installed). The RV shop where this is being done has suggested instead I purchase the Blue Ox Patriot system. Their pitch is it is (1) easier to install, (2) can move it from one vehicle to another much simpler, (3) lighting is simpler as it uses the explorers lights.

I have reservations about the Blue Ox system as I don't know if I want to taking it in and out every time I want to use the Explorer; I don't know if there are reception problems as the coach controller is wireless to the toad; I am not sure how proportional it is as it isn't using brake input from the coach (that I know of other than brake lights to activate).

Searched for the Blue Ox on iRV2 and there are a number of comments - mostly positive. Main negatives are the nuisance of taking it out of the toad and then setting it up every time when going to tow, occasional glitches with wireless controller and occasional over/under reaction by the unit because of jostling (going over a bridge).

I don't know if the shop wants to sell these Blue Ox more than the US Gear systems (although they stlll have them on hand) or if they don't want to allocate the time to install it - my dime so I don't know why they would balk; saying 4-5 hours. Maybe they are just being considerate.

Any thoughts.

Jeff

ps. thanks to Gil and Mike for info re. wiring the lights in the 2013.

[LarryNCarolynShirk]

Jeff.

My US Gear system is on it second coach and third toad.  Your coach is already wired and installed.  I would just buy the toad parts and have them installed it on your new toad.  I would not want to install and uninstall every time I used the toad.  Where do you store it when not in use on the toad?  There is no learning curve on the US Gear system.  You know it works and how it works.  It your service guy does not want the job, find another technician, or do it yourself.  Get it done and have some fun.

Larry

[Jeff Watt]

Larry,

Same conclusion I came to overight.

I dont want to be learning a new system either.

Jeff

[Jerry Carr]

Steve we have use brake master product for years they have even done rebuilds for us during the FMCA rallies the brake system we now have is 6 years old anc called the BrakeMaster is ROADMASTER's 'direct' proportional braking system. It connects directly to the motorhome's air or hydraulic brake system for rock-solid, reliable braking — brake line pressure in the motorhome controls the brakes in the towed vehicle.

We also run the Roadmaster tow bar. I like this brake system as it is a quick install does not effect the seat location and uses no 12V

We run it on a Saturn view but I also used it on my jeep.

[Joel Ashley]

I'll back up Jerry's vote on the BrakeMaster, Jeff, and ours is also 6 years old.  I don't consider the 30 seconds it takes to fasten and unfasten it at the brakepedal much of a nuisance, and it certainly stores more easily than one of those box-type units.  At least your new Explorer won't require the Neutral Tow Switch like our '97.

If you don't want to mess with anything much at all regarding the auxilliary brake, consider RoadMaster's new system, Invisibrake:
http://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/braking/invisibrake/index.html

Joel

[Bill Sprague]

I have the Brakemaster too.  When I step on the MH brake pedal, a little light glows showing me the brake pedal moved in the car.  Being "proportional" to the air pressure going to the air brakes, I am confident it presses harder if I press harder on the MH pedal.  Yet, I have no idea the actual force being applied.  Since the power brakes on the car are off,  I presume it take more force that I apply with my foot.  Nor do I know if our Ford, with the brakes off, react the same as Joel's and Jerry's cars when their power brakes are off.  

Can anyone tell how hard their system presses the car pedal?  Is it a feather touch?  A moderate pressure? Or is it pushing hard enough to make a real difference?  

[Jerry Carr]

Bill I don't have a clue maybe if you had a scottie or 2 and I can give you a ride and we can check it out

[Bill Sprague]

Bill I don't have a clue maybe if you had a scottie or 2 and I can give you a ride and we can check it out

Jerry,

You've "hit the nail on the head"!  In my 8 years of motorhome ownership I have not found anyone that can say if the brakes in their toad apply a little, a lot or too much braking.   They "work" but, do they work appropriately and effectively for the vehicle weight, road conditions and any real urgency to stop?

When I pulled a trailer that weighed about the same as my truck, I could tell when the trailer brakes worked right.  When I pulled a boat that weighed twice the truck, I could really tell.  Now that I pull a car that weighs 10% of my motorhome, I don't have a clue if the Brakemaster pushes the pedal with the right amount of force for typical stops or panic stops.  

So who gets the scotties?  The one who drives the motorhome or the one riding in the toad looking trying to measure effectiveness.  

[Steve Jewell]

This is what I did to check mine. Get an infrared thermometer then go for a short ride whith coach and towed vehicle. Then stop and check temperatures of all rotors and drums (make sure you check where pad or shoe makes contact). Rotors will more than likely be hotter than drums. I check mine on a few trips as I ajusted it now they all run about the same temperature (I have all disc brakes). If you are worried about the engine brake turning on towed vehicle brakes install a swith so you can turn off brake light feed to towed vehicle when engine brake is on.

Steve

[Edward Buker]

This has been an interesting problem over the years with no solution regarding testing and calibrating the effectiveness of the toad braking system. If you went one step further with Steve's approach, it would seem that you could actually reach some level of calibration. If you took your car out with cool rotors and set a speed, say 40 MPH, and put the brakes on for a moderately hard stop, not panic stop just a bit aggressive. Repeat that say three times in a row in a short stretch of highway and then immediately measure the rotor temps using an IR gun. Now you know what the rotor temperatures would be with a set of calibrated stops from a set speed. Once the car rotors are fully cooled, hitch the car up to the coach, go 40MPH and repeat the three stops in approximately the same manner. Again measure the car rotor temperature. If about the same then you are done. If it is much warmer or cooler adjust the brake settings accordingly. While this is not perfect it would make sense to have the car brakes performing about the same regarding pad pressure as they would normally for these stops. The heat in the rotor is all generated by friction so it is a good measure of the braking energy being generated. seems like a good idea...

Later Ed