Water leak question

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Ed,
Thx, that sure looks like a pretty permanent fix assuming one maintains the membrane.
Steve

[Andy Clark]

Sorry to be tardy in reponding, Keith. Been outta town.

The vinyl insert is a common insert found on many RVs. It's available in rolls from CW. I bought  a 100ft roll to do both sides of the Beaver. It's a little tricky to insert at first because you have to induce a "bulge" in the flat vinyl as it comes from the roll by partially folding it lengthwise. The trick is then to insert the top edge in the upper "C" channel edge for 6 inches or so, then run a screwdriver along the bottom edge, capturing the lower edge of the vinyl, popping it into the lower "C" channel edge. Do 6-10 inches then repeat. After a while you get the hang of it and it goes pretty fast.

And please do leave the front and rear ends open.
HTH
Andy

Bill, Andy:

I am on the hunt for the cause of a similar bulge in the wall in roughly the same place.  I suspect the screws behind the channel that covers the roof to side joint.  I had a similar problem above the drivers side window, that eventually settled to a trickle when I recaulked a gap between the channel and the fibreglass where the channel was sitting proud of the roof panel.  That trickle has so far defied all of my attempts to stop it, so the last place to look seems to be the screws.
On the passenger side that solution is less intuitive, since any water coming in at that location will have to get past the Girard awning before descending to where the wall shows a bulge.  On close inspection, the awning attachment seems tight, so is not a viable suspect.  As I will be replacing the wall covering in the course of an interior upgrade, I will dig into the bulge and see if that leads to more of a solution.  

Andy:  What was your source for a replacement plastic insert?  Mine appears to be continuous for about 35 feet on each side of the coach.  There is a second stripe of the same stuff at the bottom of the fibregalss sides.  Both have discoloured badly and cleaning with Toluene only gets part of it clean.

[Keith Oliver]

Thought I would re-visit this old thread, as I have started the redecoration needed before installing my newly fabricated valences.  

At the driver's window, I pulled of some of the vinyl wallpaper that was loose, and behind it I found the wood paneling rotted and disintegrating.  In one spot the corrosion of the aluminum surface of the structural grid had pushed the vinyl out over 1/2 inch, without breaking the surface.  So far all I have accomplished is to fill a garbage can with the old vinyl and wood, getting the wall down to a fairly smooth, not quite uniform surface.  Next step will be to go and buy some door skin so as to re-panel the whole area before painting.  The window will need to come out at the time of putting in new paneling.  The whole area will need to thoroughly dry out.

The rotting of the wood suggests a leak that has gone on for years at this location.  No surprise, as this coach was kept in the desert, where it never rains, and from its condition when we bought, it appears to have had a covered parking spot when not in use.  When it did get rained on, the PO had no incentive to spend a lot of time or money chasing any leaks, as things would dry and it would be a long time till the next rain.  

Being from the wet coast, however, I need leaks taken care of, quickly and effectively.  I believe I have this one under control, as you will see from earlier in this thread.  Now the repairs.

I tried to get the cabinetry above the window away from the wall, but to no avail.  There is just too much stuff that would need to be removed first, including a lot of necessary electrical stuff.  So I will work around the cabinetry.  I can get inside the cabinet that the inverter control and tank tender are in, and I can deal with the rest of that side from inside the TV cabinet.  All of the paneling above the window is rotted. The rotten wood has turned black, and smells.

[Keith Oliver]

More!

The bulge, as reported above by Bill Jourdain, in its incarnation in my Beaver, was right where the wall panelling transitions to carpeting, below the wall lamp that is between the dinette and the chair.  Mine was not protruding far enough to knock the trim to the floor, as Bill reported, and my trim was screwed in, so could take a lot more deflection.  In depth, mine was no more than 1/4 inch.  So imagine my surprise, when I cut into this, to find that behind the impervious vinyl covering, was a space between the aluminum frame (aft side of the space) and the white styrofoam filler (forward side) of about 3 1/2 inches, going from just above the floor, to the bottom of the upper cabinets.  In this space was a piece of finger jointed 2x2 that didn't appear to be attached to anything, but stood the full height, beside which was a piece of 3/4 plywood, edges towards me.  Btween these bits of wood that didn't quite fill the space, nothing else.  Both these bits of wood were completely rotted, top to bottom, as was the skin plywood on both the inside and outside of the aluminum frame.  At the bottom it was so wet that I got splashed as I hacked away at the rot with a wide chisel.  The inside skin is only doorskin, or equivalent, about 1/8" thick.  The outside skin seems thicker, maybe 1/4".  I scraped the rotten wood away, all the way to the inside of the fibreglass outer skin of the Coach.
Since the rot goes all the way up to the bottom of the cabinets,and all the way to the floor, there must have been water in this cavity for years.  Big unanswered question, where is it leaking?  I have had all of the windows out to fix wriggly seals, and have noted that around the window openings is in "as-new" condition, so I know that is not the source.
I pulled the forward half of the upper cabinets down and attacked the wall behind, only to find the back of the Girard awning, also in "as-new" condition.  So if it isn't coming down behind the awning, or from the windows, where can it be coming from?
Our first trip, in March 2011, we lost a cover from the forward A/C, and got very wet in rains over the next two days, heading home.  This water came down through the A/C and dripped on the carpet in the middle of the room.  Is it also likely that water from the middle of the roof could get to the lower ie, past the awning, part of the wall?
I have kept a cover on the Coach since we got home, so no new water has been allowed in, and I had already sealed everything I could see needing it.  I am now wondering if I should be removing the solar panels and the A/Cs and re-sealing them, as those are the only through the roof attachments that I can't see.  All the ones I can see are good.
I still need to pull the vinyl strip out of the gutter and check the screws, but the pristine condition of the back of the awning suggests that all is well there.
?
I had to return to Coquitlam for a few days, but will be on a priority to get this issue resolved as soon as I return to Saltspring.

[Joel Weiss]

Keith--

I had recently posted about what I found with respect to the vinyl strip and screw situation on my coach.  My MH has what appears to have been a similar leak that previous owners (and I) had fought with only limited success.  When I pulled off a section of the vinyl strip I could see extra screws that had been installed in a previous repair attempt.  However, since those screws were just plain steel they had rusted through in the vicinity of area where the leak was.  When I tried to tighten them they broke off (both originals and "newer" ones).

I then drilled new holes and used stainless screws to pull the gutter closer to the side wall.  I could tell I was making the gap smaller because a small quantity of water oozed out when I tightened the new screws.  After using a bead of clear caulk above the drip rail, we have since withstood a number of rainy days here on the "wet coast" without further evidence of leakage.

Even though the back of your Girard casing appears pristine, I would urge you to check out the vinyl strip above and near it.  My leak, although apparently not as bad as yours, migrates a couple of feet laterally from where the water gets in.  What probably makes mine easier to localize is the fact that our cloth wall covering which shows stains at the slightest evidence of water behind it.  From your comments, I gather your wall coverings are vinyl which probably hide the presence of water un

Joel

[Keith Oliver]

Joel:

Thanks for your thoughts.  
I will be pulling off the vinyl insert and inspecting the attachment of the gutter.  So far, my examination has not revealed any cracks in the caulking, and miraculously, there is no silicone used there, so no reason to suspect any problems.  Behind the vinyl, however, remains a possibility.  
It just boggles the mind how wet the space that I exposed was!  How that much water could get to that location, undetected.  Once it rotted through the 1/8 inch plywood, it showed up as a bulge in the waterproof covering and it has moistened the new laminate flooring in its immediate vicinity.  I could see this as a raising of the surface of the flooring, in an area of about 1/2 a square foot, adjacent to th epart of the wall where the bulge was located.  Once things dry out, I will caulk the space between the wall and the edge of the flooring to eliminate future problems.  Luckily, I used a laminate with the "scraped hardwood" finish, so the raising of the surface in a small area doesn't show, and it is against the wall, so no chairs or anything else sit on it.
This is impacting my progress on building new valences, of which I had hoped to have all the work done before I had to return to Coquitlam.  
This is also impacting my work on my boat, which needs to get ready for summer fun!  
Ain't retirement grand!

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Keith,
A leak at the Girard will not necessarily show up directly below the leak location. Look at the exterior skin carefully for any delamination, indicated by a very slight "budge". The leak from my Girard showed up 3-5' aft of the leak location.
Steve

[Keith Oliver]

Steve:  

Despite the rot including the wood between the fibreglass skin and the aluminum frame, where I have cleaned the rotten wood away, working from the inside, there is no bulge in the exterior glass.  I have an exterior bulges beside the entry door, but no corresponding problem on the interior.

What did you do about the "bulge" in the external glass?  It isn't structural, so did you bother to do anything about it?  Did it shrink after you gat the leak fixed?

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Keith,
Not much you can do about the delamination that I'm aware of. It seemed to decrease a bit after things dried out but it is still visible if you know what you are looking for.
If the bulge beside the entry door is near/below the exterior handle, be sure to check it out. I found leakage there when redoing my floor. Had I not pulled the carpet up, I'd have never noticed it. Handle has a seal that fails, then water pools in lower attach and gains access to interior through mounting screw. I resaled mine and drilled a "weep hole" in bottom of attachment.
Steve

[Keith Oliver]

You would think......but no,  the guys who are assembling these coaches would never think their product will be outside, subject to extremes of heat and cold, constant earthquake simulations, high pressure rain, etcetera, and that anything that appears tight enough in a heated shop may not be as tight after a few years of those extremes.  
Thanks for suggesting the innocuaous looking handle attachments.  That leaves any other attachment as equally suspect.