Aladdin Tank Sensors

[Stan Simpson]

The calibration for the fresh water, gray, and black tanks on the Aladdin is off. With Bill Sprauge's help, I've found the problem is likely a bad sensor or sensors.

Now that I have located the tanks, I'm trying to locate the sensors. I have been told that the black and gray are fastened to the tanks that are shown in the attached picture. I have no idea what they look like. If you recognize them in the picture, please point them out to me. Or if you are around your coach and they are easily accessible, I'd appreciate a picture.

As for the fresh water tank, it is in the same bay as the Hydro Hot, and that bay is completely encased in a metal framework. I have no idea how I would access any part of the tank except the part I can see when I open the bay door. On the back side of the tank are the two bays that are attached to the roadside slide out in the front. I completely emptied both bays and searched. There is no "door" or access panel from that side. There is a round plate right in the middle of the rear wall of those two bays that is about the size of a tennis ball in diameter..perhaps slightly smaller...and it has vents  on it. It doesn't move, so I don't believe its an access point either.

The bay next to the Hydro Hot/water tank bay on the curbside is a "half bay" that has a rear wall that abuts the aforementioned slide out bays on the other side. There is a carpet covered wall in that bay that abuts the water tank. I have a Kwikee slide out tray in that bay. I emptied the bay and got inside it and started exploring. Lying on my back, sliding back and forth I discovered where the Xantrax inverter is mounted to the ceiling of the next bay over, and right above my head there were two black air tanks, which I assume to be for the air brakes. Turning over on my stomach, I found a panel on the wall next to the water tank. Its turns on some kind of axis, but due to the slide out tray, and being afraid I would break something, I gave up after trying to pry it open.

I called BCS and talked to Ken in service. When he found out that I have the water tank where it is, he said, uh oh, that is a big problem getting to the sensor. I explained about the possible "door" I had found on the wall. He asked me to send him pictures of it. He said he doesn't know what it might be, and doesn't believe he's seen it before. I'm going to go to the coach tomorrow and take my good camera so I can get better pictures. I'm attaching one I took with my iPhone.

If I have to, I will un-install the Kwikee slide out tray to get it out of the way. I installed them in my HR Endeavor, so its something I know how to do.

Does anyone else have a water tank in the same place as mine, and do you know how to get to the sensor for the Aladdin?

Thank you,

Stan

[Jim Nichols]

The sensors for blk and gray are are on the street side behind the white panel. The sensors have the phone line type connections and clip on in the middle of the sensor. They are hex shaped and threaded into the tank. They are located at the bottom side wall at the drain. Make sure you are completely drained and cleaned before removing. DO NOT touch the clear film on the end of the new sensor because it gets its reading from the amount of water pressure on that film. DO NOT over tighten. The sensor on our fresh water ( Natasha calls it the white water because the tank is white or because the others are gray and black ) is bad on ours and did not bother replacing because (1) I just need to open the bay door and see the water level and (2) I could not find it and (3) I felt it went bad because I have let the tank over fill many times and it put to much pressure on the sensor ( ruining it ).

[Tom and Pat Fudale]

If use clorine to disinfect your tank it will destroy your sensor in time.

[Joel Ashley]

Stan, I was going to get some ideas for you and a photo or two, since our setups are similar, but the weather here near Portland made it difficult to do so today.  I did discover that my windshield sealing so far isn't stopping my electrical bay water intrusion;  these gullywashers have filled it again.  Gad, this is aggravating, cuz I can see no hint of where the water is getting in, except a driver's side rubber moulding window gasket isn't fully seated;  but any water there should go out the frame drains.  Aaarrrgghhhh!

Seems like I saw an access panel in the wall behind the Hydro-Hot;  there may be one behind the water tank in that same curbside bay as well.  If so, you'll have to get under the coach to remove the panel, which of course means safety precautions so the coach can't come down on you.  If you put out your streetside front slideout, it may be easier to get under and in position to check the other side from there.  Since I've never had to mess with that side of things, I can't be sure.  Perhaps if the weather wanes tomorrow, I'll get a chance to check mine and provide more input.

If that wall panel in the bay with the tray was commonly removeable, it should have a finger hole in it;  on mine, the water pump and lines are accessed that way on that same bay's opposite side.  It may also have semi-hidden screws in the carpeting, or held in place by Velcro strips, in which case it should pry off.  I'm not sure I have a panel like that in the same place, but I'll try and check tomorrow.

It does seem strange though, that you'd have bad sensors in all three tanks at once, as opposed to a questionable Alladin module or setting.  

Joel

[Stan Simpson]

Thanks for the input, Joel, Tom, and Jim.

Joel, I'm not saying all three sensors are bad. I just don't know and want to check them somehow. Here is what happens in trying to calibrate the tank settings.

I went to the system set up and filled in my tank capacities. Then I went to calibrate and set the EMPTY values to the RAW showing on the bottom of the screen. The Ftank was 1023, the Gtank was 37  and the Btank was 56. All tanks were EMPTY at the time.

Then I checked the tank levels and all 3 now registered 0 in gallons and percentage.

I proceeded to fill the fresh tank. When it was full, I checked the RAW values for the tanks and all three were still the same. As I understand it, the gray and black should have stayed the same because they were still empty, however, the pressure of the full fresh water tank should change the RAW setting. It did not. It leads me to conclude the module is ok, and that the fresh water sensor is bad.

If I did something wrong, let me know please. Or if you have a different idea.

Thanks,

Stan

[Joel Ashley]

Stan, I've never had to calibrate my tanks, so I can't comment as to that procedure;  I'm sure Bill is steering you correctly.  I likely have calibration guidelines in one of my manuals if needed.

Below find a couple photos I took today for you.  At the top right front of the bay adjoining the HydroHot/water tank bay is an apparent carpeted filler panel.  You may be able to see it is held (to backing plywood in the water bay) in place by a line of decking screws, visible just above the fishing reel.  You likely have something similar, and removing the screws may give access to the water tank top, but my inspection over the tank would lead me to think there is no advantage to that.

The other photo shows a small approx. 6"X8" carpeted panel of thin fiberglass composite or plastic.  I could not budge it, and found only one decking screw in it, so it is either glued or velcroed in place, and I didn't try to pry it loose or remove the screw.  Even if removed, I doubt it could give access to tank sensors which are probably spaced vertically along a tank wall, and I couldn't see any such attachments from the tank side, though it is hard to get light along there to see well.

I'm still thinking you need to get under the rig (with proper safety precautions), and I'd first try it by crawling under from the open front streetside slide area;  the bays there are attached to the slide and automatically will leave you plenty of working room underneath when the open slideout renders them out of your way.  My guess is that there may be a removeable panel giving access to the back of the water tank, just as there is for the adjoining Hydro-Hot.  With luck, the sensors could be in a vertical row behind such an access panel.  I was not in a position to easily check mine for such a panel today, or I would have.  Having not dealt with such sensors before (on our Beaver at least), I have to admit I'm guessing a lot, but hope it is helpful to some degree.

Joel

[Stan Simpson]

Joel,

The picture of the little gray panel in your bay is exactly the same one I posted above with the exception that the indentation is facing to the back of the bay.

As for the other picture, with the fishing rods, I can't get the  perspective. nor do I see the line of decking screws. Is there a way you can put an arrow on them for me?

I was at the coach today and took a bunch more pictures. I will post them after dinner and my beloved Blackhawks attempt to stay alive in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Stan

[Joel Ashley]

Yours may not be exactly as mine, Stan, but here's what you asked for:  the white arrows mark deck screws, pretty much in a row, and there are more in that row that are a bit hidden in the carpet material.  The dashed orange line marks the bottom edge of the filler insert, where it butts up against the top of the main carpeted right side bay wall, seen in the photo between the frame rail and the wire loom and bright metal box, just inside and above the bay door.

You know that if you click or double-click on any photo attached to a Forum post, your computer should open it in a larger, easier-to-see format.

-Joel

[Stan Simpson]

Well Joel, I'm slapping my open palm on my forehead...!! I had the perspective that the picture was of the floor of the bay. Now I see its the wall and ceiling. Those fishing pole tubes are hanging on the wall!! Got it now, thank you. I will check that out tomorrow. Thank you so much!

As for crawling under the coach, as long as I don't have it on jacks to lift it, it will be resting on the rubber. I don't see any danger of it coming lower. Unless you know of the air inexplicably dumping or something, I will investigate what's behind the road side front slide from underneath.

Thanks for helping this neophite. We have had this Beaver for over a year now, and we love it. In the next 10 years, I'm hoping to have a tenth of the knowledge on here.

Stan

[Joel Ashley]

I doubt you'll find what you're looking for behind that upper bay panel anyway, and wouldn't bother removing it unless there is no sensor access panel behind the tank.  

It's always a good idea to put support blocks underneath any time you plan on being under the coach, regardless of your perception that it would never come down further.  At least if it did for some unforeseen reason, the blocks would take the load instead of you, and you don't want Becky finding you that way, Dude.

I am also wondering about that wide metal separator between the Hydro-Hot and the water tank;  curiosity may lead me to check it further when I get time.  It's feasible there could be either tank fittings or HHot components within it, I've just never paid it much heed.

Joel

[Stan Simpson]

Before I tackle Jim Nichols idea that the sensors for the black and gray tanks are behind the wet bay panels, I will just relate this.

Today, with a full tank of fresh water, and empty black and grey tanks, I ran the shower for about 5 minutes or so. I could visibly inspect the water tank to see the level had dropped about 6 to inches from the top. However ,the gray did not move off of zero.

Could it be that the module is bad instead of the sensors?

[Joel Ashley]

Yes.  And the black and gray sensors probably are behind the wet bay panel.

Joel

[neil omalley]

Stan:  The sensors on ANY of these rigs are notoriously AWFUL.  I took my panel apart and installed new sensors about a year ago and the only tank level I can be sure of is my fresh water because I CAN SEE it!  The new sensors in my black and grey tanks show anybody's guess as to their accuracy.  Best bets?  Kinda keep a mental tally of how much water you use from the tank you can see and use your judgement as to when you need to dump.  Look at your water tank usage after  taking a shower  and you'll soon get a feel for how much water you are using wether you are using onboard or campground hookup.  If anyone comes up with a foolproof gauging system, please to let us all know.  Neil

[neil omalley]

By the by- the type of sensors in our rigs are ,as Jim mentioned calibrated to measure the pressure put on that membrane he said not to touch.  My point being that because it is not a finger type probe, the chances of the sensors becoming fouled by excess tp or other "solid waste" are quite slim and therefore doing some of the tricks suggested by some (ie. ice cubes in the tanks, special probe cleaners, etc.)will not do a whale of a lot of good to clean the sensors. I personally, wish some savvy engineer had used the foresight to install sight glass - not a pretty sight but at least you'd know when when was when

[Joel Ashley]

There are newer technologies out there that apparently don't mount sensors in the tank, but I guess from outside they electronically read density variances, and are less troublesome.  Seems like there have been discussions here about their Alladin compatibility, or not, in a retrofit.  It's something to consider since the old finicky sensors could be left in place, disconnected and forgotten.

Joel