SMC Levelrs

[Larry Lewis]

Hi, I am new to the this board and also have a new to me 2001 Beaver Ticonderoga Patriot that is currently experiencing a problem with the SMC levelers. Once you hit the auto level it will dump the air and level the coach just fine but after a few minutes the left side will start to settle down. I have been told by a local RV repair center that the problem is probably with the extend solenoid and that it may not be sealing correctly which could let the jacks bleed down. There are no leaks in the lines and other than this issue the leveling system works fine.

I have done some checking around and apparently the original manufacturer, which I believe is SMC, is either not in business or do not deal with RV leveling systems. I have taken it to my local dealer in Las Vegas and they are trying to find parts for it but no luck so far. Since it appears Beaver/Safari may have used this system on many of their coaches during the early 2000 I thought I would post here to see if anyone might have more information regarding this.

One thing that is a bit unusual is the jacks do not extend to the ground but level the coach against the frame and axles which I believe is similar to some of the air leveling systems that have been around for awhile. In addition, some paperwork that was left in the coach referred to RVA jacks whom I did contact and they did not believe it was their system as they only make 3 point leveling systems. They did say that sometimes coach manufactures would buy components from them and others and customize to their own specifications.

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

I have the same system on my 2002 Thunder and had a similar problem. A facility in CA. diagnosed it as a bad hydraulic manifold. The manifold was back ordered but when it finally came in I took the coach to Beaver Coach Sales and Service in Bend,OR. They know that system inside and out. My problem was just an adjustment of two hoses. I highly recomend you talk and or take it to them. By the way, if yours needs a manifold I have one new in the box. Good luck, Marty

[Gerald Farris]

It is impossible to tell what is wrong with your levelers without working on it. Most likely it is a jack with an internal by-pass or a valve leak but you will have to check it to be sure what it is

Marty is right about Beaver Coach Sales. They know your leveling very well, and they know where to get the parts to fix it if needed. Beaver Coach Sales is located next door to the factory where your coach was built, and most of their service personnel are former Beaver factory employees. If you can not make it to Oregon, give them a call, they will steer you in the right direction.

Gerald

[Dave Blystone]

i also have the same system on my 01 beaver patriot 33 it is a big foot quatro system i just had mine looked at to be changed to go to the ground rather then the axle i was told it couldnt be done quatro has a shop in lakeland fla and main shop in white pidgen mi  good luck  dave
  

[Edward Buker]

I have the same system on my 2002 Marquis, which was a new coach to me this spring. I have to say that I am not entirely happy with the leveling system. It seems very abrupt in adjustments in the leveling phase. When you go through auto retract it is even more abrupt when it releases the hydraulics for retracting the cylinders. There is a lot of weight involved and the retract just seems way too fast. The coach manual is also very limited in its explanations as to the optimum way to deal with this systems shortcomings. I have learned a couple of things from others and woud love other peoples comments and suggestions on the best way to use this system. This issue may or may not have some bearing on your problem. When I leveled I could not get the coach to stay level once I completed the leveling cycle. What was happening is that the air dump time built into the controller was not sufficient to dump enough air to not have residual air pressure from the tank resevoir start to bleed back into the air leveling system and start raising some air springs. Before I start to level I now manually dump air to almost zero lbs. The air dump cycle built into the leveling process takes care of the small residual. To eliminate the rapid drop in the retract phase i start the engine and fully air up the suspension before I retract any jack. This helps reduce the distance the coach will "fall" during retract. I do the retract process using the manual retract button bumping it a little at a time with a series of stops and starts so as to not drop as abruptly and quickly as I would in one full retract step. Please comment if you either have the same issues or do not. Also if you have found better leveling practices, please let me know. I bring this all up on the off chance that instead of the left side settling down with the hydraulics, that instead, it might be possible that the right side might be slowly raising with residual air.

One last thing, the feet of the hydraulic rams look to me that they had a recess built in for some kind of pad material. Did the rams ever use some kind of composite or rubber pad on the feet. Metal on metal seems not the best idea for noise and shock loading for these components.

[LarryNCarolynShirk]

Edward,

The time delay of the air dump can be modified by the folks at Beaver Coach Sales Service Dept.  They changed mine to 90 seconds, which dumps all the air.  As I recall it was a software download to the control module.  I would guess not many shops have access to the software.

Each jack is extended until it hits the frame and jiggles the coach.  That jiggle stops the jack. When all 4 are touching the frame, leveling begins.  So you have 4 jiggles before leveling starts.  The 2 jacks at a time are extended to complete the leveling process.  If only one jack were extended, the frame would be twisted.  If the left front and right rear were extended together a twist would occur.  So only the pairs on the front, rear, or each side will be extended at one time.  This will, hopefully, avoid popped windshields. The best way I have found to avoid the earthquake is to leave the coach until it is over.

Full air up before retracting the jacks seems to reduce the rapid free fall when you push the retract button.

Larry

[Edward Buker]

Thanks Larry,

I did not know that the Beaver folks could modify the delay time, that would help. It will be another year before I get back out that way and could have that done. I loved the line "The best way I have found to avoid the earthquake is to leave the coach until it is over." That brought a good laugh on my end.

I wish some owner was a hydraulic engineer and would come up with a modification to at least slow the drop rate during retract. It would seem like adding some flow restrictor on the return side line would help but it is not my field, really have no idea.    ...Hope other owners will comment on any tips they have learned.

[Chuck Bayman]

I have this same system on my 2002 37' Patriot. It took about 3 years
and out of warranty before someone finally got it fixed. They did replace
the manifold block and that took care of the problem. I too have always
dreaded retracting the jacks for the reason you all have talked about. I
will try the airing up and then retract. Also do you guys leave your sildes
out or bring them in before you unlevel? I have always brought mine in.

[Edward Buker]

Chuck,

I have dropped the coach and aired up the suspension before I bring in the slides. Seems like if the coach is level you should be able to bring the slides safely in before you retract but I'm not sure. From my understanding Monaco/SMC wanted the coach fully aired up for slide movement.

 If the hydraulic leveling system has raised the front or the back of the coach enough that the valves for the air spring leveling system are closed then you can air up the tank system to pressure but you will not have air movement into those air springs that are in the most raised positions. The gentlest way I have found to come off of the hydraulic levelers is to bump the manual retract switch, dropping a little at a time, after airing up, to give a chance for the all the air springs to come up as the coach comes down. A little delay between bumps of the switch watching the air guage will let you know how much air is still flowing into the air suspension. Allowing some time and flow of air into the air springs means we will have a shorter distance to come down (fall) and have a cushioned landing on the air springs. Ideally, if the coach lifted in all positions with the air springs you would not feel the retract at all since all of the hydraulic rams would be lifted off the axles before you start retact. That can only happen if when you leveled the  coach it was low enough where all of the air spring air feed valves remained open. Hope this helps.

Still looking for a better procedure if there is one or some system modification that would slowly lower the coach on the hydraulics.

[Gerald Farris]

The problem with a restrictor is that oil has to flow into the top of the jack and out of the bottom of the jack at the same rate on extend, and on retract the fluid flow is just reversed. So a restrictor in either line would slow extend as well as retract. The ways to do it are to "T" in another circuit with a low flow rate to control the retract process, or you can use a two speed pump with high speed to extent and low speed to retract, or install a switchable valve that can change the flow rate with a seperate switch when retracting the jacks. This would be more complicated and expensive than the circuit that is now used, but any of them are doable. The system designer obviously did not think that any of these design changes wre practical or cost effective, as none were ever added to their system.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Gerald,

Thanks for your insight, I have never worked on hydraulics. My suspicion is this system was designed with speed in mind and parts were ordered, drawings made, design put in place without some robust review process.....I'm not sure there are any users out there that likes the hydraulic ride that we have now.  In my opinion I would consider the leveleing process in both the up and down phase as violent sometimes given the weight and speed of movement. I would have no problem with slowing the raise and the fall rates to less than half what they are now to make this a gentle process. The fact that it would take a minute longer is of no importance to me. A Beaver Marquis was never meant to feel like a fair ride at the midway....

Do you think a simple restrictor on the pump output and return line might work?

[Gerald Farris]

A restrictor would work, but it would increase pump pressure and therefore it would increase pump wear and oil heat depending on the amount of restriction that you use. So it is a trade-off, is the benefit worth the cost.

The reasoning that I was using in the fact that design was not changed comes from the fact that the system was used on many Beaver and Safari motorhomes for two years without any changes being made. You may call Beaver Coach Sales to see if they have ever tried to slow down the system, and found a better solution to the problem than I see.

Gerald

[Edward Buker]

Thanks Gerald,

I will ponder this a bit and talk with the folks at Beaver coach sales at some point soon. i wonder if several restrictors, one in the pump output line and then one T'd off that line with a return back to the return to the oil resevoir/pump assembly, as a bypass, such that the sum of the flow was the same as before would solve the pump wear issue. This would allow some adjustment by allowing you to change the ratio of restrictors for experimentation.  

Does anyone have a hydraulic and or electrical schematic of the leveling system in question? The system has some good points in that it senses the points of contact and levels the coach in increments without twisting it. The leveling rams not going to the ground for a heavy coach is also a benefit in my opinion. If it would just be gentle about the process instead of "riding out the earthquake" I would be a happy camper.

I'm new to the forum and do not know if anyone else is interested in this or have just learned to live with it.

[Marty and Suzie Schenck]

When I had my SMC leveling system repaired last April at Beaver Coach Sales and Service the tech told me to air the suspension up FIRST  then retract the leveling jacks. My owners manual says " slides out then level" and "air up suspension then slides in". 2002 Patriot Thunder  Marty

[Larry Lewis]

Thanks to all of you for the information and will be trying some of your suggestions. Does anyone know if Beaver was the only coach builder to use this type of system? It does not seem like there are many RV repair places that have any real knowledge about it.