Author Topic: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer  (Read 24922 times)

Larry Williams

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2014, 06:27:11 PM »
Quote from: David T. Richelderfer
I just got off from chatting with a Dish Customer Service Representative.  I can get ONE Hopper and multiple Joeys for the house with no problem.  One Hopper for the first TV and additional Joeys for additional TVs - an additional Joey for each additional TV, assuming the additional TVs are in different rooms, I suspect.

The potential problem came when I asked for a SECOND Hopper and a Joey for the coach.  The CS Rep said I must talk to their RV Department.  I suspect their modern configuration - that being ONE Hopper with multiple Joeys - is designed to prevent multiple residences from operating on ONE account.  She hesitated when I asked for TWO Hoppers and TWO Joeys - one of each in the house and coach.

Bottom line: If I get TWO Hoppers and TWO Joeys, then the cost would be just over $140 per month on my selection of subscription.

As Mr. Simonis pointed out, it appears I must contact the RV Department to become authorized to get that SECOND Hopper and Joey for the coach put onto my one house account.  But that should not be a problem because I already have a THIRD receiver in my coach on my one home account.  All I am doing is upgrading from older receivers to their new Hopper/Joey system.
I have a good friend who is a Dish retailer and when I talked to him about upgrading my home to the hopper, he said I had to discontinue using my other existing receivers (some of which I own, including the one in the MH) and the only non-hopper/joey could be the 211 made for MHs. Needless to say, I declined. I had forgotten about that when I replied above. So, since new users would have to get the hopper/joey system, I'm not sure how Dish would work for them if trying to piggyback on their home system.


Doug Neal

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2014, 09:31:08 AM »
We have Dish Network and am satisfied. I have a 722 DVR that was moved from a house we used to own. Dish will not allow any of their equipment with a hard drive to be used in a MH. I am under the radar I guess because I change my locals when we travel. I tried to upgrade to a Hopper and learned about the hard drive policy. They want you to use 2 model 211 receivers. We have a Winegard 1000 roof mount dish that folds out. I would not recommend it as it is very expensive to repair. It cost $800.00 + labor for repair last year. I will check my paper work and post a recommendation for your consideration.

Dick Simonis

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2014, 01:56:36 PM »
Quote from: Doug Neal
We have Dish Network and am satisfied. I have a 722 DVR that was moved from a house we used to own. Dish will not allow any of their equipment with a hard drive to be used in a MH. I am under the radar I guess because I change my locals when we travel. I tried to upgrade to a Hopper and learned about the hard drive policy. They want you to use 2 model 211 receivers. We have a Winegard 1000 roof mount dish that folds out. I would not recommend it as it is very expensive to repair. It cost $800.00 + labor for repair last year. I will check my paper work and post a recommendation for your consideration.

Doug, I was unaware of the hard drive policy when I first signed up for Dish and they first uninstalled a 722 with hard drive in my travel trailer several years ago.  In fact the installer came to the RV park in Lebanon, OR to do the install and hook up my than Winguard CarryOut portable antennae.  For several years I moved the receiver between home and RV until last year when I ungraded the house to a Hopper and also had one installed in the MH.  Now granted when I did the upgrade I went through a normal CS rep not a specialized RV person and never specifically said it was going into an RV (oversight on my part).  By this time I had also purchased the Beaver and after a couple of years with the portable dish had BCS install the Traveler so when it cam time for the Hopper upgrade I had the correct antenna and all was fine.

Edward Buker

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2014, 04:26:51 PM »
I'm not sure what you can talk the dish folks into these days but we would be lost without a DVR in the RV. We skip all the commercials and are not tied to being available when a show that we like is on. We use a 722 from home and do not bother with locals from the satellite when traveling.

There should be no issue with running a unit with a hard drive in it as long as you always remember to remove power from it before you start up the motorhome. If you wire it to an outlet that never sees the inverter that helps, but the use of the generator while on the road would be an issue. I made a little panel with some lights on it and some switches where I can shut off all power to both the dish and the 722 receiver for traveling. Unplugging would do the same but lacks a warning light. I have been using the 722 for 4 years now without issues.

If you have a TV that Monaco had installed an ignition interlock relay, to disable it while driving, the use of that same outlet as a power source for your DVR would be ideal if you are planning an installation.

Later Ed
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 04:39:28 PM by 910 »

Stan Simpson

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 786
  • Thanked: 202 times
  • One mile South of the Cheddar Curtain
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2014, 06:26:37 PM »
We have DirecTV at home. We never record anything, so we just have 3 regular receivers. One for the family room, one for my office, and one for the bedroom. The "bedroom" receiver is mounted permanently in the coach. We never watch TV in bed at home, or while traveling. The third receiver is $6.00 per month. We have a Winegard Trav'ler on the roof of the coach.

In the past, when we've traveled, we could call and temporarily change our service address, and we got local channels at our location. In the past couple of years, Direct has disallowed this, telling us we need a separate RV account with DNS service. I can watch local news on our iPad, and if we need local channels (rarely, unless the Stanley Cup is on NBC  instead of NBC Sports Network) we just crank up the OTA antenna.

Stan
Stan Simpson & Becky Glover & Moe the cat
2005 Monterey Laguna IV
C9 400 Cat
Honda CRV toad

LEAH DRAPER

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2014, 09:05:02 PM »
If I were not already tied into DirectTV I would probably choose Dish, because DTV won't let you suspend service when you are not using your rig.   And if you discontinue  service when  not using the rig, they make you return the  receivers even if you paid for them.  They are the only one you can get NFL Sunday ticket with also.

Joel Weiss

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2014, 04:37:58 PM »
Quote from: Edward Buker
I'm not sure what you can talk the dish folks into these days but we would be lost without a DVR in the RV. We skip all the commercials and are not tied to being available when a show that we like is on. We use a 722 from home and do not bother with locals from the satellite when traveling.

There should be no issue with running a unit with a hard drive in it as long as you always remember to remove power from it before you start up the motorhome. If you wire it to an outlet that never sees the inverter that helps, but the use of the generator while on the road would be an issue. I made a little panel with some lights on it and some switches where I can shut off all power to both the dish and the 722 receiver for traveling. Unplugging would do the same but lacks a warning light. I have been using the 722 for 4 years now without issues.

If you have a TV that Monaco had installed an ignition interlock relay, to disable it while driving, the use of that same outlet as a power source for your DVR would be ideal if you are planning an installation.

Later Ed

We don't power down the DVR nor do we turn off our computers when we travel.  Modern hard drives are far more resistant to vibration than they once were.  Otherwise laptops wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are.  


Joel Weiss

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2014, 04:43:55 PM »
Quote from: Doug Neal
I would not recommend it as it is very expensive to repair. It cost $800.00 + labor for repair last year. I will check my paper work and post a recommendation for your consideration.

As far as I'm aware, the Trav'ler is the only fully automatic dish that can lock onto all the satellites needed for either DirecTV HD or Dish HD.  If you want to operate a DVR and be able to record one or more channels while watching another there is no substitute for the Trav'ler.  Sure, it's not cheap to repair but it's a complex system that sits out in the open and bounces around on the roof when you travel.  The fact that it can work under those conditions is impressive IMO.  Since there's no alternative that meets our needs we'll live with its shortcomings.


Edward Buker

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2014, 05:01:30 PM »
Joel,

There are very small hard drives with very little mass to the read write head that are used in the portable computer application. IBM actually pioneered the miniature hard drive for portable applications and reducing the size and mass of the head was one of the hard drive crash prevention strategies. They heads also park themselves, go to sleep, when not called upon for a period of time even when the computer is operational. These hard drives were designed for mobile applications and are quite resilient to moderate vibration and bumps.

The hard drive units found in satellite DVRs like the 722 are high capacity hard drives like those used in desk tops. It spins 24 hours a day even when your unit is in the off mode. It records in off mode and is always available. These type drives are more resilient to bumps and any impacts then they used to be but they are still not very robust given the application that they were intended for. You may remain lucky but given we hit bumps that have dislodged shower doors I still think this is quite risky when there is really no reason to have it on while driving Joel.

Later Ed

Gerald Farris

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2014, 05:27:12 PM »
Joel,
The RF Mogul system (developed by the original owners of MotoSAT) has all of the same capabilities that the Trav'ler has, but it has serviceable parts if a problem occurs. With the Trav'ler, you have to replace the entire base for the dish if anything in it fails. So with the RF Mogul system if the small electric motor fails that controls dish elevation, you just buy a new motor, but with the Trav'ler you have to replace the entire base.  

Gerald

Joel Weiss

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2014, 05:38:01 PM »
Gerald:

I stand corrected; I had overlooked that unit partly because I've never given it serious consideration.  Even though the developers have good credentials I am reluctant to buy expensive hardware from small companies that might not be there when I need service support.  At least Winegard is a key part of the the RV TV world and will be there when I eventually need to repair or replace my Trav'ler.  Maybe in another 5-10 years you'd be able to make that statement about RF Mogul, but not at present.

Joel

Edward Buker

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2014, 07:15:46 PM »
Joel,

For what it is worth this an article on the damage forces and types of bumps that the type of hard drives found in DVRs are capable of surviving. The forces that cause damage are about 7 times higher in the off state. There is one well insulated drive meant for hard use but if you look at the damage forces table it only helps in the off state.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a-sturdy-companion,758-2.html

These are the compatible drives used in the 722, the Seagate is the most likely one that was installed.

Hitachi HCS725050VLA380
ST3500830SCE
WDC WD5000AAJS-57

This is the spec sheet for the Seagate which includes the on and off vibration specs.

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_db35_7200_3.pdf

You are the physics wizard Joel, those vibration specs will mean more to you than me. All I know is I rarely got away scot-free when thumping one of my desktop drives over the years. I have drawers that jump out onto the floor at times and I know my 722DVR has levitated in the air momentarily before doing a landing on the shelf in my rear closet :-)

Later Ed




Joel Weiss

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2014, 09:33:28 PM »
Quote from: Edward Buker
Joel,

For what it is worth this an article on the damage forces and types of bumps that the type of hard drives found in DVRs are capable of surviving. The forces that cause damage are about 7 times higher in the off state. There is one well insulated drive meant for hard use but if you look at the damage forces table it only helps in the off state.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a-sturdy-companion,758-2.html

These are the compatible drives used in the 722, the Seagate is the most likely one that was installed.

Hitachi HCS725050VLA380
ST3500830SCE
WDC WD5000AAJS-57

This is the spec sheet for the Seagate which includes the on and off vibration specs.

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_db35_7200_3.pdf

You are the physics wizard Joel, those vibration specs will mean more to you than me. All I know is I rarely got away scot-free when thumping one of my desktop drives over the years. I have drawers that jump out onto the floor at times and I know my 722DVR has levitated in the air momentarily before doing a landing on the shelf in my rear closet :-)

Later Ed




Actually Ed, you've provided all the information needed to explain why my hard drives aren't particularly disturbed by traveling in the MH even when they are running.  The article you cited states that the rated "operating" shock for most HDDs is in the 50-60G range.  That's the kind of shock you get from something moving at ~0.5 m/s stopping in a hundredth of a second, like dropping a object from a height of a couple of inches onto a slab of concrete.   No question that won't do your HDD any good.  

But high impact forces only occur when a moving object stops suddenly.  The reason the MH situation isn't nearly so bad is that everything in the MH is moving at the same speeds both sideways and up/down.  So it is difficult for objects to sustain impact forces of the kind necessary to do harm. There's a huge difference between the nearly instantaneous stopping that occurs when an object falls on concrete compared to the impacts transmitted through the wheels to the inside of the vehicle.

If the MH's wheel hits a pothole the vehicle shudders but everything in the vehicle is moving together.  The jolt the DVR feels is the same jolt felt by the shelf it is laying on, for the most part the objects move together.  Unless an object literally goes flying and then falls back onto its shelf the impacts felt will be more in line with roller coaster forces (~5Gs) rather than impact forces.  If an object does lift slightly off its shelf, the fact that it has rubber feet and probably is sitting on a carpeted shelf helps reduce any shock it may receive.  Even if your entire MH goes airborne, everything in it is moving at exactly the same speed, therefore virtually no impact forces occur when the wheels make contact with the ground.  

We all get jarred by the bumps our coaches go over, but the actual impact levels aren't all that high because they do ride on inflated tires and have pneumatic suspension.  We see cabinets fly open, but much of that comes from distortion of the cabinet frame and latch as the vehicle flexes slightly on impact.

The lesson from this is put your DVR (or other sensitive stuff) on something that will cushion it (not something that will make it bounce)--thereby stretching out the time of any collision that occurs if the object is jostled; a piece of carpet would be fine.   Better still, put a bungee cord over it to hold it on the cushioning material so it has to remain still on its shelf and can't possibly go airborne.

We've had a DVR in the MH for 4 years without issue and I've never actually considered the physics of it until now.   Thanks for making me think it through; now I'm less concerned than I was previously.  If someone at Dish has made a rule about DVRs in MHs they clearly don't know the physics of the situation.

Joel

Edward Buker

  • Guest
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2014, 01:37:08 AM »
Joel,

Being conservative in nature I will probably still power down but it is good to know that as senility sets in and I forget the switch I will probably be OK. My unit sits on a hard surface so that the cooling vents are not blocked, yet another hazard heat and carpet dust....

Later Ed

Norm Green

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Thanked: 13 times
Re: DirecTV or Dish Network as a new customer
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2014, 04:17:07 AM »
Joel, I just wanted to pipe in and say that I have had several dealing with RF Mogul and found them very customer oriented, professional and knowledgeable.  They have years of experience with RV antenna and support their product well.  They had a booth at the Perry GA FMCA rally.  I would highly recommend them to anyone looking at a new system or needing service on an old Moto Sat system.
Norm & Cynthia Green
Franklin, TN
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45W
Previous, four different Beaver coaches