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Storage Bay GFI

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Jim Shaw:
I also have the problem of the storage bay GFI tripping at times. It has not been a major problem so I have not done anything, but am thinking why not change it with one that is on the same circut inside the coach. Then I would not need to go outside to reset it. Wouls it still give me the same protection?
JIm Shaw
2003 Monterey

Edward Buker:
Jim,

The GFCI protects its own outlet and any outlets/switches that are wired beyond it on the same circuit. That means that the basement storage bay outlet is most likely the first outlet beyond the breaker and then it proceeds wherever Monaco chose to go next. I did not get a chance today to isolate that circuit and see which outlets and loads are involved. I do know that my main salon 120v ceiling light and wall sconces are involved which is a pain. If you found the next outlet in the circuit beyond the initial outlet and installed the GFCI there, that would give you protection from that point on but not the bay outlet.

I believe there is a better way to wire this troublesome circuit layout. GFCI outlets can be wired as individual protection devices where the following outlets are not in series with the first GFCI outlet. The line feed to the next outlet would be tied to the line in to the first outlet. If the next inline outlet location was determined then that could be individually protected also and so on until one made the decision to wire the rest in line as protected or not. The advantage of wiring as individual protected outlets is that the problem source outlet would trip and not affect the others helping isolate the source of the problem. This also would likely move the tripped outlet up into the living area or if the basement outlet tripped it would not cut voltage and current to others beyond it. I will have to do a little checking to see how to wire this way. I do not know if GFCI only breaks the hot line to the next outlet or the neutral also. I think just the hot line.

Geralds problem and solution makes sense to me if the circuit that was getting wet was the GFCI outlet that was tripped or involved wiring or an outlet that was beyond it in the same circuit. Gerald did you have a situation where another circuit was tripping a GFCI on another breaker? I'm still trying to sort out if we have a stray current from elsewhere causing these issues or if the GFCI is operating properly and the fault lies within the GFCI circuit.

Later Ed

Edward Buker:
This is a follow up to my GFCI tripping in the bay problem. I replaced the original Pass and Seymour GFCI with the exact replacement which I found at Lowes. The tripping continued only it seemed to be more frequent. I started the witch hunt for bad connections, or a device that was plugged in that had a ground connection that some of the current could be leaking to. The issue is we are looking for 5 milliamps of difference betwen the hot and neutral lines as the tripping point on an intermittent basis. This is not an easy problem to sort out without some kind of continuous current recording device which I do not own. There are two ways to implement GFCI protection, one is to wire one GFCI outlet in place and use it as a device to protect all the follow on outlets. This is the way our bay GFCI is installed. The alternative is to use multiple GFCI outlets and protect just a single outlet at a time. That was going to be my next step, to install multiple outlets and let the offending GFCI outlet location trip as a diagnostic method and save going to the bay to reset. Before I went to that expense and trouble I was still suspicious of the GFCI outlet itself given the original and replacement units acted differently, as to how often they would trip. I found a Leviton wet environment GFCI at Home Depot, purchased it and installed it and I have not had a trip event in days. My suspicion is that the contacts that are used as the breakaway device in the wet environment version are lower resistance and not prone to oxidation. That may explain with some contact heating the intermittent tripping of the other brand. Perhaps the circuits are more stable in the wet environment version when the humidity is at 90% as it has been here lately. I recommend this GFCI product to anyone that has had the problem. Hope this helps...Later Ed
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xiu/R-202026829/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Joel Ashley:
One would expect all GFCI outlets to be relatively weatherproof, given they are basically designed with potentially wet environments in mind, like kitchens, bathrooms, and even garages, where I've experienced GFCI failures myself.  Though ground faults can occur from things other than moisture-related events, and GFCIs protect against extended shock in any case, thanks, Ed, for alerting us to the fact that not all GFCIs are created equal.  Perhaps RV manufacturers should also take note of this regarding outside bays.

-Joel

Edward Buker:
Joel,

What appears to be the better GFCI is labelled as made for outdoor environment where the others are not so I believe there is a real difference in the design plus a 30% price premium.

As I look at the RV AC schematic the bedroom, bathroom, and living room lights, most outlets, and all electronics (radios, tvs, sat, dvd, etc) are all connected through that one bay GFCI while only allowing 5MA of mismatch from hot to neutral. I count 11 outlets, all the 120V lighting plus the awning.  It is a wonder that this arrangement works at all. One could have easily wired this with three or so legs each with its own GFCIs for protection. That would have divided up the load per GFCI and allowed 5MA per leg before tripping with a possible 15MA of tolerance total. This would have probably been a much more "false trip" tolerant design than we have now. When it comes to the bay GFCI tripping in the middle of a rainy night life really isn't fair...

One might mount a remote switched 12V solenoid inline with the GFCI reset button and patent the Beaver auto reset option :-)

later Ed

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