Oasis Combi by ITR Replaces Original Hurricane

[Mike Groves]

Since this is my first post I'll introduce myself before complaining about something.   My name is Mike Groves.  My wife Margaret and I are from Portland, Oregon, and currently also purchasing a lot at Pacific Shores in Newport, Oregon, so we'll be spending time in both places.

Now for my "complaint".  After purchasing our 1999 Beaver Marquis, it became clear that our Hurricane Heater needed an intense maintenance.  It seemed quite loud to me, and it would fire, then flame out.  The exhaust system was in decay.  Those of you with Hurricane Heat probably have experienced these issues.  At any rate, since I live in Portland I took the coach to ITR in Vancouver, Wa, and the service, including new control board (old one obsolete) was quoted as around $1500.  Kevin of ITR said it looked like it had never been serviced after 65000 miles and that the fuel nozzle was original.  At any rate, as an option, they said they'd swap out the old Hurricane for an Oasis Combi which had higher BTUs and included an electric element which could be used (like in the Aquahot systems).  Having spoken with Jim Rixon and have been quoted $2500 or so for that addon, and $4500 by Kevin for a new combi (with $500 exchange and no sales tax), I decided my "new to me coach" needed a new heating system. 

My disappointment lies in the fact that this new unit is no quieter than the old.  I'm not sure its the noise as much as the vibration within the sheet metal cabinet - maybe both.  I've seen Aquahot installations and they are much more quiet to my ears, but I've also noticed the cabinets they are in are more insulated.  Has anyone else felt that their Hurricane or Oasis combi units are too loud in that front passenger cabinet?  Have you spent a night on the couch bed with slide out open and felt the vibration?  Did you do anything to make it better?

I appreciate the other Beaver owners of similar coaches - I've documented mine pretty well here for others by listing a URL to a website of pictures of my coach including the Oasis Combi Unit from ITR.  Maybe this problem was addressed in 2000 and later, but perhaps someone with a 1999 Marquis can comment.

!Note! I don't see the profile info when I preview this message, but I'll post it and see if the coach info shows up.  In case it doesn't my coach is a 1999 Beaver Marquis 425hp 1550ft/lbs torque.  Also note I am not trying to sell my coach but everything has a price and this is the website I've created in case we do eventually sell.

Thanks! Mike

[David T. Richelderfer]

We have a bit newer coach.  It has the large AquaHot unit, the AHE-100-02S, with 50k btu heat output.  With our television on in the living room I can just barely hear if the diesel burner has fired up.  The three furnace fans in the living room/kitchen make much more noise with the fans on high speed.  The overhead air conditioner/heat pump units make more noise as well.  In fact, when the diesel burner has fired up it makes only a low-pitched hum that is quite tolerable.  I have not slept on the couch except while snoozing when watching TV.  With a king-sized bed, even if Leslie is in the dog house, the other side of the bed is far enough away.  My brother has a 2000 Tourmaline.  I have not heard him complain about its Hurricane noise.

Our AquaHot is enclosed in two stainless steel boxes - one that is the cover for the unit itself and another box which houses the whole unit and protects it from road spray and direct outside cold air.  The only insulation is that I can see is deep inside the unit itself surrounding the water tank and diesel burner.  There is no insulation on the inside walls of the outside box that the AquaHot is housed within.

As with most devices in our coaches, when they work they're great, when they don't they're expensive to repair.

[Tom and Pam Brown]

Mike,

I have a 99 Marquis Tourmaline as well.  The hurricane in mine is not a bother when running in mine.  I do not have the oasis upgrade, and most of the time when we camp in cool weather we use an electric heater to keep the chill off.  When we camp in sub 40 degree we use the hurricane, not often I admit.  I use the hurricane when the wife and I shower relatively close together year round for the hot water.

I have replaced the exhaust and change the nozzle annually.  I keep a spare clean and have it handy while traveling.

Check the enclosure for loose screws etc, that might quiet it down a bit.

[Gary Wolfer]

I have a 98 patriot last summer Kevin Lampbert did a swap for a rebuilt hurricane box in my coach and I am curious why they switched yours to an Oasis? Maybe because you said it was noisy? Mine is a bit noisy but I do have one screw missing on the bottom of the box and I get a vibration from that. I love the hurricane I hope Ittr does not quit manufacturing that model they put an awful lot of them in fishing boats. I thought the oasis was a smaller less  powerful unit. Their web site last summer mentioned switching units for a rebuilt one. Nothing about switching to Oasis.

[Mike Groves]

I have a 98 patriot last summer Kevin Lampbert did a swap for a rebuilt hurricane box in my coach and I am curious why they switched yours to an Oasis? Maybe because you said it was noisy? Mine is a bit noisy but I do have one screw missing on the bottom of the box and I get a vibration from that. I love the hurricane I hope Ittr does not quit manufacturing that model they put an awful lot of them in fishing boats. I thought the oasis was a smaller less  powerful unit. Their web site last summer mentioned switching units for a rebuilt one. Nothing about switching to Oasis.

I'll try to recall Gary.  I visited them in October, 2013, after having purchased the coach in September.  I'd already had a muffler shop weld the exhaust connection to the Hurricane, and my next step was to have them "fix" its problems. 

They got to work on it, and while they were taking it apart discovering the deferred maintenance, Kevin mentioned the Oasis (larger unit) which couldn't fit into the space, he also told me the Seaward Water Heater was almost new, which I already knew from the previous owner - so I knew I could resell that part rather than junk it. 

He then mentioned the cost of the maintenance and that there was some part, not sure what it was, that they were running out of, and that once they ran out, I'd need a new controller board (which was about $600 or $700).  So, with that and the deferred maintenance, the total cost so far without going further was going to be about $1500 for my trip to see them (if I wanted the board upgrade - which I figured I'd need sooner or later). 

This hurricane couldn't heat the coach with electric power, and that was a feature I was interested in to the extent that I'd called Jim Rixon's company about adding their Comfort Hot 1500W electrical apparatus to the Hurricane.  The quote from Rixon was at least $2000, and I think he might have said $2500. 

If I'd done the maintenance for $1500, then added the electric element of Rixon's that would be $3500, so it wasn't a huge leap moneywise to just go ahead and make things new by upgrading to the Oasis Combi.  As for quieter, the literature on the Oasis Combi said it was very quiet, so knowing how loud I'd already heard the Hurricane to be, that was enough for me to say, let's just start fresh. 

So, to answer your question, it was a combination of things - I had no idea how much longer the Hurricane would last so the last $1000 or so spent ($1500 + $2000 + $1000 = $4500) was sort of insurance going forward (having a brand new boiler) - not to mention its BTU rating was higher than the original Hurricane and could be supplemented by the 1500W (6500 BTU) element imbedded in it.  It also fit the existing cabinet with space overhead to spare versus the Hurricane with Seaward Heater.  Just seemed like a good idea to me, but I continue to be disappointed with the noise it makes.  And that's why I was asking if others had upgraded to the Combi and what kind of noise their Combi makes. 

I just returned to the ITR website, and it appears that some pages are outdated, as an example - http://itrheat.com/products/hurricane-heating-systems/ which talks about a Hurricane II Combi.  I don't think they name it Hurricane, it is now Oasis.  The smallest unit outputwise and physically is this - http://itrheat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Oasis-Zephyr-Bro-LR2013-.pdf - then the Oasis Combi here - http://itrheat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Oasis-Combi-Bro-Beach-LR-.pdf and the largest (which wouldn't fit in my coach due to depth) here - http://itrheat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/OASIS-CH50M-Brochure-LR.pdf

Kevin said that the BTU ratings on the original Hurricane was overstated but that the Combi's output was absolutely as stated so it was better.

The system performs as advertised but was simply louder than I'd imagined.  I had it back to ITR a couple times to try to address the noise and I believe Kevin put some insulation into the cabinet - maybe he thought the problem was inner vibration of parts - and he gave me some sound deadening material that I have since placed on the sides of the cabinet, but I am now thinking of placing some "Anti-Vibration Pad" (neoprene) - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OQTV2I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - beneath the unit and behind it so that the vibration/noise is cut down.  I think its the resonance from the sheet metal cabinet which intensifies the noise.

Before I did so, though, I'd thought I'd check with others, but evidently, no one else has an issue according to Tom's and Dave's postings (but Dave has an Aquahot - no fair!).  Not sure right now how I am going to lift the unit up to place the neoprene beneath it, but I do think I can pull it slightly forward so that at least a can fit a piece behind it.

I hope I answered your question in all of that.  My wife says I write so much that I get lost in it.

Mike

[Joel Weiss]

This hurricane couldn't heat the coach with electric power, and that was a feature I was interested in to the extent that I'd called Jim Rixon's company about adding their Comfort Hot 1500W electrical apparatus to the Hurricane.  The quote from Rixon was at least $2000, and I think he might have said $2500. 

Mike:

Not that you can do anything about it now, but you apparently didn't understand that Jim Rixen's Comfort Hot is close to 4kW of electric heating.  He utilizes the two 20A air conditioning circuits to power his system and it ends up delivering nearly 2/3 the effective output of the Hurricane.  We uses Rixen's system to keep us warm with outside temps well below 30 F.  With both the Hurricane and Rixen's system running we have more than enough heating capability to keep us warm.  BTW the cost of installing Rixen's system not quite 2 years ago was $1700.

Kevin just rebuilt my Hurricane for <$1k (without a board change).  It cost me a bunch to ship it to him on an expedited basis but that's because we were in TX and not in OR.  I think it's pretty quiet, but I have no reference point for which to compare the sound level of mine and  yours.

[Mike Groves]

Hi Joel,

We've "spoken" in the past on other forums about various topics such as the wifi ranger and, I believe, about the sound bar surround sound. 

No, I didn't know about the power specifications of the comfort hot unit, but I was told it would cost in the $2000s for the product when I called in September, 2013.  I can't find it on his website today. 

Admittedly, I'd love to have the option to go full electric and get the same BTUs as for the diesel but 4000KW is only 4kW x 3412 or about 13650 BTU/hr.  The Oasis Combi diesel is rated at over 42,000 BTU/hr, and then if parked I supplement that with the 1.5kW or about 5118 BTU/hr so if I need heat and hot water, then I think I need the diesel.  Then again, if you are parked, an electric heater can also supplement in so far as cabin heat and I know others do that.  So the element is mainly helpful to heat the water and even 1500W does pretty well for that.  The other thing about the Rixon add on obviously used external space, and I didn't want to modify other sections of the coach with this.  I do like that the Oasis Combi got rid of the valve issues others have had while attempting to locate the Summer/Winter Loop valve.  This one is right in the cabinet, as is the reservoir fill and expansion tank - in fact these are in the unit so that keeps things a bit more economic when keeping things warm.  The only thing the guys at ITR didn't do that they said the would was remove the original Hurricane reservoir tank in the engine compartment.  They didn't want to mess with anything back there though they did cut and stub off the fill neck hose of that reservoir. 

The only other thing not migrated to the oasis combi was the Cabin Heat switch on the driver's panel.  ITR didn't know what to wire that to, and frankly I don't know either as, if you have the Combi on (turned on with its on/off switch in the cabinet), and you have the thermostat on in the coach, then as soon as the engine heats the combi liquid up, the combi will automatically start operating the fans throughout the coach.  So, the only thing I can think is that the cabin heat switch on the driver console must be another way of turning on the master switch on the original Hurricane, but the combi doesn't have that external wire I guess.  They did wire the PRE HEAT switch so that the pump runs when that switch is pressed.

I have used my 1.5KW electric element in the Combi for short showers (which is what I take anyway), but, for my wife, I turn on the diesel burner.  I've also tried, while on shore power of course, leaving the diesel off overnight in what turned out to be about 46 degree temps or so, and what it does is runs the fans, but then the fans stop while the element builds up more heat, then the fans come back on, during the night.  I wouldn't have minded using the diesel but as I said, mine is too loud and there's too much vibration, when compared to Aquahot at least.  I really believe its the cabinet composition.

True, very hard to compare noise when we only have one unit and no standard.  But I know it is as loud as the Hurricane was, and a park neighbor allowed me in to his 2001 Monaco Signature (I believe it was), turned on his AquaHot and I just couldn't hear it.  Another seller of a 2001 Marquis turned his AquaHot on and I could barely hear it.  I'm not here to tout any other virtues of the Aquahot, however, as I've read the stories about its various maintenance nightmares.

I guess I'll have to lift this monster up, which wouldn't be so bad if I drained it first, and was able to get the muffler off, and see if I can place the neoprene beneath it.

[Joel Weiss]

Admittedly, I'd love to have the option to go full electric and get the same BTUs as for the diesel but 4000KW is only 4kW x 3412 or about 13650 BTU/hr. 

Mike:

What you overlooked in your comparison is that the efficiency of a burner is probably no more than 0.7 (70%) at best.  Therefore, even 42,000 BTU/hr delivers ~29,000 BTU/hr to the working liquid.  And that 70% can easily degrade to 60% with any burner imperfections (dirt, etc).  In comparison an electric heating element immersed in the fluid is, by definition, 100% efficient.  So it's not really a stretch to claim that my Comfort Hot delivers close to half the heating capability of the Hurricane.  This winter we used the Comfort Hot exclusively in Corpus Christi where we had a number of nights at ~40F with strong winds.  All we had to do was set the fans to the High setting and we were fine.  There's enough heat coming from the electric system that on a single pass basis, with the gray drain open, I can run cold water through the kitchen tap and the incoming cold water is heated enough that it feels lukewarm to the touch; not as hot as the Hurricane can now heat it but not bad.  One thing we do like about running electrically during the winter is that we don't have to worry about topping off the diesel tank to reduce the risk of condensation.  I'd much rather pay the RV park for electricity than have to lug 5 gallon cans of fuel to the coach every week.

Between the Comfort Hot and the Hurricane we now have over 40,000BTU/hr of heat actually delivered to the working fluid which is more than adequate for any situation we wish to be in.  We have no interest in doing cold weather camping! 

As for the engine preheat switch, after the Comfort Hot installation our circulating pump will run whenever a thermostat calls for heat so the switch itself was not needed to circulate liquid through the warm engine.  At my suggestion, what Rixen did with the switch was wire it so that it controlled whether or not the hot water tank aquastat would trigger a request for heat.  That way, if we are driving and the hot water cools to the point where it triggers its aquastat, I can turn that switch off so that the "call for heat" doesn't result in the pump running.  Or, if you had the coach plugged in for storage with the hot water off there would be no way for this switch to result in the pump endlessly running trying to heat the water.

As for the price, we had the Comfort Hot installed in the fall of 2013 and, as I said, Jim charged me ~$1700.  I've heard from others that he now bundles the Comfort Hot with his new furnace systems and I wonder if the price he charged you was indicative of not wanting to do one without the other.  I really like his furnace; the pump and burner are all in one small module that can be sent in for service, if necessary.  He also has an option for a true on-demand hot water system.  But the price is $6k installed.  Having Kevin refurb my Hurricane was a lot more affordable.

Joel

[Mike Groves]

Joel,

To each his own I guess, I just want my preheat switch to turn on that pump which moves coolant in the engine through the heat exchanger of the combi, so that the engine coolant gets heated by the combi on those cold mornings when I want to preheat the engine.  I turn it off before starting the coach so that I don't forget.  I don't want that loop still running or coming on for any other reason while I am driving the coach as its anti-freeze temperature is then controlled only by its own thermostat in the engine.  If I turn on that pump without having the combi on, then shame on me. 

As for the efficiency, I have no idea what the efficiency rating is for the diesel boiler but if a gas furnace is 80% in the least of those systems, I'd guess that internally torching a fluid bottle would be much more than that since everything is closed up especially after the initial heat up but who knows?  True, fouling can occur but this is a low pressure system anyway, so you have your hours meter to look at and also you get to know the heater, or at least I do, and I know approximately how long typically it has to run during intervals where it heats its coolant.

I suppose if someone wanted to get really into those details, they'd have to see how long it took 4Kws to heat up the specific volume of liquid, compared to the diesel boiler.  Simply use time involved and ITRs burn rate of the diesel (ok that's a guess) to figure out an approximate amount of diesel used during the burn.  You could then do some math to figure out the cost of each and which is more efficient KWh vs Diesel in this specific instance. 

I know for my 1.5Kw it takes a long time to heat that fluid, so I typically turn on the burner first, let it cycle, or turn on both, then turn off the diesel burner and let the electrical element keep things warm - sort of like having a fire turned on low.  But, another way to do this would be in a general case using universal values of energy.

As a start, consider this chart -

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/energy-content-d_868.html

From that we can conclude that a gallon of diesel would generate 139,000 BTU, which converted to Kwh is about 41Kwh.  On my most recent electric bill, here in Portland, Oregon, I pay 6.5 cents, plus another .246 cents (transmission charge) plus another 3.928 cents in distribution charge per Kwh (total 10.674 cents/KWh) which is $4.38 for 41Kwh of that electricity equivalent to 1 gallon of diesel at $2.75 per gallon right now in Portland.  So you're paying 60% more for the electricity than the diesel assuming both are 100% efficient.  This would then mean that the Oasis Combi's efficiency could be as low (and I doubt it) as 60-70% and still cost the same as the electricity.

So, its been a while since I posted this thread, so I guess nobody else has a noise issue with their hurricane boiler, or has done anything to eliminate a noise issue.  So, I guess I'll pioneer one and let everyone know what I did if its successful. 

Thanks Joel, and Tom, and Gary.

[Tim Westman]

Hi Mike,

I apologize for getting into this discussion a little late but we have been out of town.  I've owned two MH's with AquaHot systems but my current coach came with the Oasis system.  I will never go back to AH!  Our Oasis is so quiet that I usually have to open a window or go outside to tell if the burner is on.  I do have to confess that mine is located in a compartment that is further back in the coach and under the bathroom/shower area which may help but I still have found this system to be a significant improvement over our previous coaches.  Vibration is non-existent.  I have also found the Oasis to be more reliable than our experience with AH.  I hope you can resolve your noise and vibration problems because I'm sure you will enjoy your purchase otherwise.  I guess my point is that it is not the"nature of the beast" and you may need continue your search for a resolution.  I wish I could help you with the latter.  Anyway to insulate for noise?

Tim Westman

[Mike Groves]

Thanks Tim,

Ah Ha!  I knew it!   I'm not crazy, nor whinny! 

I believe the cabinets I've seen for the Aquahots in other coaches and the Oasis on the Newmars, have been much more insulated and the unit doesn't just sit on a sheet metal (or aluminum?) floor inside a box of the same material.  My last effort, as indicated, will be to attempt to place a neoprene mat of 1/8in or 1/4in (if I double the first one) thickness both beneath and behind the unit. 

If I can get the exhaust off (shouldn't be too bad since its less than 2 years old), then perhaps use my Jeep scissors jack to lift the unit from underneath the coach through the exhaust hole, it may not be too hard a job as I can slide the neoprene underneath.  I really don't want to drain it or take it out entirely, but I might have to do that as well. 

How large is your coach, and what model Oasis is in it?

Thanks Tim!
Mike

[Ron Johnson]

Hey Mike .. I replaced my Hurricane with a rebuilt last year and in the process replaced the previous flooring with 5\8" hard rubber. It all works good, a little quieter maybe however just make sure you make the exhaust hole in the neoprene large. I had some melted rubber underneath at first 'til it found the balance.

[Mike Groves]

Hey Mike .. I replaced my Hurricane with a rebuilt last year and in the process replaced the previous flooring with 5\8" hard rubber. It all works good, a little quieter maybe however just make sure you make the exhaust hole in the neoprene large. I had some melted rubber underneath at first 'til it found the balance.

Ron,

Thanks, words of wisdom for sure!  I'll give it a wide berth!

Mike

[Tim Westman]

Mike,

Our coach is 45 feet long and the system is the CH50V (50,000 BTU).  The unit has the twin electric heating elements and we run most of the time with those alone.  Our diesel burner only has 60 hours on it.  Good luck on resolving the vibration/noise issues.  I think you are headed in the right direction.

Tim

[Randolph Lewis]

Mike,
We have only had our coach about four months and have really only used the Hurricane heater on one weekend trip. It did operate with very little noise. It sits in its bay with no apparent sound proofing.

Randy