Author Topic: Battery boost switch  (Read 7941 times)

harry kew

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Battery boost switch
« on: June 02, 2015, 09:23:02 PM »
I'm working on a 2000 Patriot thunder, the battery boost solenoid in the battery box is not working when we push the boost switch to the left of the driver seat
The red wire going to the boost switch has no power in any key position, does anyone know where this red wire gets it power from.
I would think this should have power when in the run position on the key
We do have power going to the boost solenoid when the  key is in the auxiliary position with out pushing the switch, that I think is normal.
I think if there is power to the red wire at the switch and you push the boost switch it should activate the boost solenoid.
Just can't fine where the red wire gets its power
I hope I explained this right
Thanks for any help

Edward Buker

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2015, 11:12:04 PM »
Harry,

I wonder if someone moved the wire from functioning with the boost switch to functioning when the ignition is in the auxiliary position. That would allow charging of the chassis batteries off of the main inverter without holding down the boost switch if you had a continuous duty solenoid. Mine works with the ignition switch on and the boost switch held down.

I have never checked if there is other wiring that powers the boost solenoid while in the auxiliary or what I call the accessory position.

Later Ed

Mike Groves

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2015, 11:16:45 PM »
My 1999 operator's manual says to charge the chassis batteries with the generator, turn the key to the aux position.

Mike

Gerald Farris

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2015, 12:29:39 AM »
Most of the SMC era coaches are wired to engage the boost solenoid when the ignition switch is in the accessory position. In fact that was the only way to charge the chassis batteries from the inverter on the early SMC coaches that were not equipped with an Echo Charger.

Gerald   

Edward Buker

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2015, 02:41:38 AM »
Thanks for pointing that out you two, never knew that the accessory position tied the banks together. Learn something new most days....

Later Ed

harry kew

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2015, 04:41:57 AM »
Fallow up,we got down on our back and crawled up under the dash pushed and pulled on that red wire found it went through what I would call the firewall towards the front of the coach and across towards the passenger side door.
Thinking that somehow it was attached to the coach power switch, that was turned off, turned it on and now when when you push the boost switch the solenoid clicks and works.

We also flushed the brake fluid, was quite a challenge refilling the brake reservoir with no access from the outside not like mine where you remove the front cover.
Thanks for your help learning something every time we work on these,great to have the support from the BAC

Mike Groves

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2015, 03:00:55 PM »
Nicely done Harry!  I know I've "panicked" a couple times, when nothing worked in the coach, only to discover I inadvertently pressed that "salesman's button" by mistake when I thought I was opening basement door locks, or turning the overhead lights on, or even simply brushing against it.  I didn't think of it as being related to the coach/chassis battery tie in switch but that certainly makes sense since it does disconnect the coach batteries.

On that point, would someone again explain why this switch is supposedly so breakable.  Doesn't it merely control a relay that disconnects the coach batteries?  It just seems that's another of those possible (sorry about this guys) "myths".  How many owners have experienced a failed "Salesman's Switch", and is using it the same as using the coach battery disconnect, or does the disconnect kill off more "stuff"?  I for one, have tried to stay away from it due to the advice given on the forum, but as I said, I've inadvertently pressed it on a couple of occasions with no ill effects.

Thanks Harry for posting the update to the problem!

Mike

Joel Ashley

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2015, 09:15:57 PM »
It was not meant as the primary way to disconnect the house bank, and can wear out and fail much more easily than a heavy duty Main disconnect.  It was designed to be a convenience for dealers showing coaches to clients essentially.  I've had mine fail.  Fortunately it was in for other service at BCS at the time, and after they stayed after hours to get it (and its consequences - the latching solenoid in the battery/high-amp fuse bay) repaired, I was in no ambiguous terms advised to leave that confounded switch alone and in the "On" position 24/7.  I've been tempted to just disable it by connecting the leads behind the switch, and for future owners perhaps neatly labeling it as "unused".

Though it could be used as a way to conserve power while dry camping, due to the wear issue there's better conservation techniques.  It supplies power to 12v. fuses and a Multiplex system if you have one.  I think the switch wears more than some when owners use it as a master light switch, especially with interior lights on.  It's and perhaps the latching solenoid's contacts can suffer from flash damage when used in that fashion. 

And lastly, the switch doesn't shut down every single house 12v. device as some people think.  The 12v side of the fridge is unaffected and ditto for the inverter.  Parasitic loads can still drag down the house bank.  Only a heavy duty Main Disconnect of some type in the battery bay can stop that.

Joel
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 09:19:33 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Mike Groves

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 09:40:30 PM »
Joel,

I think your post really clears things up for me anyway.  The only thing I could think of was that it would be a bit easier to shutdown the coach batteries, if dry camping before going for a long hike, then return and walk past the switch again, rather than having to do so in the back of the coach at the battery bay - I mean you can do it coming and going normally.  But I take your point.  Thanks!

But your experience with dry camping brings to mind what my wife said when I told her about the "fact" that even with our chassis battery disconnect switch invoked, the ECM will still drain our chassis batteries, and she said, "well, if that's true then how does one dry camp for any period of time"? 

Which I thought was a good question.  Joel, how long do you typically dry camp, and how often during that period of time do you have to run the generator to charge the chassis and coach batteries back up so the ECM doesn't drain your chassis batteries?  Or is your model not affected in this manner.  I guess maybe not, as its much newer, and with a different engine.

But still, my wife's question was a pretty good one.  What do those with "SMC Era" coaches do to preserve the chassis batteries while dry camped?

Thanks Joel,
Mike


Joel Ashley

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 10:23:04 PM »
  Quite frankly, I have never fretted over the ECM parasitic drain.  It's not large enough on its own to be of consequence except in a long storage situation, indoors where a solar system can't help.  Whether plugged in or on generator power, our BIRD controls charging of the house bank first, then at about 13.4v it passes charge current over to the chassis set.  Older rigs rely on Echo units.  If my chassis set is perpetually low, the ECM would not be my first suspect.  Even new batteries can have bad cells, etc., and one bad battery can drag its partner(s) down with it. 

You're right... I can't speak for older Beaver coaches.  But we had an '84 Pace Arrow bought new, and I prefer forest service camps, so I have a little experience with dry camping.  We dry camp regularly, often for weeks at a time (3+ weeks near Lake Louise, Canada, in 2012) and I don't mess with the disconnect switches.  I habitually monitor the Aladdin and the Magnum remote panel during each day, but I'm not fanatical about it.  If we want to use the microwave or TV, etc., I have a good idea what I can get away with without starting the genset.

I'm also cognizant of ambient shade and the coach position relative to the solar panel's potential input during the day, though it is not a lot.  Most beneficial of course is running the genset each day an hour or two to get the Magnum readout up to "Float" charge or close to it.  I try to do this at whatever time of day is optimal for where we are, cognizant of campground noise rules, proximity of other campers, etc. 

The Beaver's genset is significantly quieter and less smoky than the old Pace Arrow's, which makes us less annoying these days  :o.  It can be difficult to prepare for the road if you like leaving very early, because you need to boost the chassis bank prior to engine start so as to save wear and tear on your alternator.  Neighbors may not appreciate an early genset, even if modern ones are relatively quiet, but then starting a big CAT too early is not particularly courteous either;  we do neither since as 30 year graveyarders, we are usually pushing checkout times pretty hard when leaving.

So many ambient factors affect this that I can't give a strict guideline or routine to go by.  Each owner has to develop his own confident habits according to his experience, but most would just keep an eye on the inverter's or Aladdin/Silverleaf monitors and run the genset accordingly each day.  I often do that midday habitually because we may run the AC's if it gets super hot anyway.  I sometimes start the Genny mid morning for a short period to use the electric coffeemaker instead of stovetop drip brew, microwave or toast some breakfast, and by consequence do some charging then.  Each to his own habits.

Joel
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 10:42:45 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Gerald Farris

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2015, 11:00:18 PM »
You should not use the coach power switch (salesman switch) to save house battery power when dry camping because cutting off the coach power switch cuts off the refrigerator unless you have a residential refrigerator.

Gerald

Joel Ashley

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Re: Battery boost switch
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 11:22:16 PM »
According to my manual, Gerald, our RV fridge is "unaffected by the use of this switch" and I presume should retain its 12v. side for gas ignition and electronics such as the LCD panel, and for the interior light.  That may not be the case for every coach, though, and my coach is in storage state so I can't readily test out the concept.  Plus, Ken at BCS will yell in my one good ear if I turn that switch off   :o  .

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat