Author Topic: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail  (Read 8169 times)

Edward Buker

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Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« on: July 05, 2015, 12:40:37 AM »
I ended up with the Echo Charger dreaded blinking LED issue and after checking connections, fuses, wiring, and voltages I concluded that the unit had failed. I ordered a new one and wired it in and all is well again. My chassis battery set was down to 11.9V and fully discharged in the week since we arrived in Seattle

Given my curiosity I drilled the rivets out and opened the old unit up. It is clear to me that the likely fail mode was corrosion shorting that caused some electrical component to fail. Sometimes you can clean away the corrosion and have a unit recover, if a leakage path that is causing the circuitry to fault is corrected. I sprayed the unit with a non chlorinated brake clean spray and used a toothbrush to clean the board of corrosion..this unit however has a permanent fail.

These units should have boards that are weather sealed with some appropriate epoxy or clear sealant. Given the wet and corrosive fume environment Xantrex has done a very poor job here. They provide lead lengths that would have you mount the unit in the battery compartment but we would  fair better if we mounted it elsewhere given this design.

I considered a marine battery coupling unit made by Blue Seas, they are a far better sealed design. The problem is it is a circuitry enabled high current relay/solenoid unit that requires larger cables and added high current fuses.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OTIPDQ/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687502&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000RZNP5K&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0H4Q87GVK2WCXKZZVV7Q

It would work just fine but is more then we need and adds a lot of painful wiring and fuse changes. If I was not on the road and I had the time to do this over I would move the Xantrex high into the rear filter bay and be careful when I clean that bay. Two photos of the land corrosion by the ICs and after cleaning....but no joy.

Later Ed

« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 12:42:10 AM by Edward Buker »

Fred Brooks

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2015, 01:15:49 AM »
                Hey Ed,

     Feeling your pain and frustration. When I first encountered them on Country Coach back in 1994, I asked the same question. Back then they were made by Heart Interface but mounted in the same hostile envoirment. Why would an engineer decide to mount electronics near sulfuric acid? I wonder if the echo charger generates any heat when latched to the chassis battery? I think I like your idea of remounting it in the next bay back and extend the wires. Oh well..............one more thing to add to my "TUIT" list.

        Happy 4th Ed, Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

Edward Buker

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2015, 07:39:30 AM »
Fred,

My house batteries were at full charge sitting at 13.5V and my chassis batteries were fully discharged sitting at 11.9V and under those conditions I put a DC clamp on amp meter after zeroing it out on the new units output wire to the chassis bank. It registered 6 amps of charge current. They run a 20 amp fuse. There is a heat sink plate built in but I did not feel any appreciable heat, I think these units run pretty cool.

Basically they are acting as a switch with logic and do not have to generate a waveform or current themselves. There is really no need to produce much heat. It would not take much effort to add some 12 gauge wire and make the move with this unit. I regularly clean and spray water in my battery compartment and there is just no way not to get some spray in/on the Echo Charger but I think the corrosion is caused by both the sulfuric fumes and water.

Really hard to understand why Xantrex does not charge us $5 more and epoxy those boards....crazy decision making, love to see the business process on that one.

Later Ed

Joel Ashley

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2015, 07:51:48 AM »
I've been repairing circuit boards and switches on "in-motion" Xmas lighting and old and new solar garden lights.  I've gone to protecting them by coating switch connections and module housing seams and wire entries with Lexel.  I asked the company that makes it and they said Lexel is non-conductive.  We all know it is an excellent sealant. 

You might consider running Lexel beads around the new Echo Charger's seams, Ed, and of course I'd wait until it had cured (48 hrs.?) before allowing the charger to run, and maybe consult with the company re. Lexel's ultimate heat resistance;  the charger likely gets much warmer than my devices do.

Joel
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 08:01:40 AM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
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Fred Brooks

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2015, 03:08:19 PM »
        Ed & Joel,

      Thanks for your input. It seems as passionate as we are for our coaches, there is always room for improvement to protect our investment. That was the nature of my question about heat generation. It appears we have 4 choices concerning this device. 1- replace it and leave it as designed, 2- enclose the unit against vapors, 3- seal the electronics with epoxy coating, 4- relocate the echo charger to a less hostile envoirment.

        I think if it is within your ability to do mechanical repairs, the best choice would be to relocate it away from battery fumes and moisture.
          Regards, Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

Dick Simonis

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2015, 03:54:06 PM »
The one on out 2000 PT was bad when we bought the coach and BCS replaced it with the Magnum equivalent.  I quickly found our that the location in the battery compartment was probably not the best and mine did indeed fail again when the coach was washed and the battery compartment cleaned.

The PO of the Marquis must have had the same problem since I found one in the battery compartment and another in the electrical bay.  Not a bad arrangement actually but now the one in the battery compartment is showing a red light (probably a blown fuse).  However, the one in the electrical bay is fine so that may be the answer.

I'm thinking of pulling the one back one if it's OK and spaying it with a sealant.  Way back when I'd used a conformal coating spay to protect stuff on our boats.  just can't remember what it was.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 03:59:44 PM by Dick Simonis »

Edward Buker

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2015, 05:38:32 PM »
Dick,

There are 4 aluminum rivets that are easily drilled out and you will have access to the front side of the board which had most of the corrosion on it best I could tell. The backside you may be able to spray coat from around the edges, it sits about 1/4 inch above a plate. There is a CRC product called Electro Clean that would be a good choice to start out with for a board cleaning. I would do that even if you did not see corrosion because the contaminants may already be there. There is one area where several discreet larger semiconductors are mounted on a heat sink where heat transfer compound is apparent. No need to solvent clean or seal those parts, only saw corrosion on the board. You would not want to wash off the heat transfer compound with the solvent wash.

It would not take much just to seal the metal surfaces from being exposed, perhaps even 4 or 5 coats of clear Krylon would be worth a try if you cannot find anything else. Some small short sheet metal screws could replace the rivets.

I am just added to this post.... I have been a fan of a product called Corrosion X but have not used it on circuit boards but there are some testimonials here that seem to have worked out in the marine salt water environment. The fact that it is a non conductive liquid has me considering pulling the fuses, spraying the board unit through the vents, and let it sit a bit and put the fuses back in.

http://www.corrosionx.com/corrosionx-testimonials.html

Later Ed
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 07:10:24 PM by Edward Buker »

Joel Ashley

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2015, 11:29:21 PM »
There ya go, Ed.  I knew you were going to tell me the charger had vents so that Lexel would be fruitless around the case.  Moving it to where it can't draw humid ambient air anymore becomes the optimum resolution.

I keep a can of CRC Electrical Cleaner around and it does work good, although I've wondered about its solvent affect on some board materials.  It relies on spray force a lot for debris removal, so there's some splashing.   Just have to follow the precautions on the back.   I often get the device surface wet with it and then scrub with a toothbrush, followed by a rinse with it;  but it vaporizes quickly.  Sometimes I spray a little on the toothbrush and scrub the device to limit overuse and splashback.   I'd also consider as a cleaning procedure a Flux pen on the board, followed by a flux remover pen and a wipe with Kimwipes.  The Corrosion-X is great, but it can be messy and its residue may be a problem if a connection needs repair someday.  Nevertheless, I'd still try it in this instance since it can prevent the inherent problem.

Joel
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 11:32:46 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Edward Buker

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 04:27:29 PM »
Joel,

In the photos I sent of the board the heaviest corrosion was right at the bottom which is where any water would run down and hang there. So I think we get some splash in through the vents and the moisture drips down picking up fume contaminants from the board surface and then the moisture hangs at the bottom until dry. Unfortunately there are some small ICs located there with the metal solder joints sitting in the soup. I do not see a good way to prevent this, even condensation at times would do the same thing. So coating the board with Corrosion X, especially along the bottom is what my plan is. I'll do that today and report back if it all went well.

I have used the CRC Electro clean on boards and never had a problem. They recommend it as a prep for paint being done on electrical equipment so it must have a very low residue level once evaporated. Always something to work on...

Later Ed
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Edward Buker

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Re: Xantrex Echo Charger Fail
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2015, 12:09:05 AM »
Thought I had posted this info already but we have had internet issues at this campground...... I did use the Corrosion X product, liberally spraying the backside and front side of the board, using the spray wand, after removing the fuses. I made sure the bottom of the board was dripping the product down onto a paper towel I placed below. I hit the unit several times with the Corrosion X solution from multiple vent openings and angles. When it stopped dripping I wiped the case off and put the fuses back in and fired it up. The output voltage is where it should be and the solid green LED returned. No ill affects and I am comfortable that the metal surfaces on the board are coated and should be protected. It took about 5 minutes to do.

Fred and Joel thanks for the inputs and ideas on this. I do think moving the unit is still a good option, I would prefer the enclosed basement area but the wiring run would be more difficult. Have to look at that when I get home.

Later Ed