Author Topic: Living with Basement Air  (Read 9977 times)

Dick Simonis

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Living with Basement Air
« on: July 30, 2015, 10:34:24 PM »
Here I set at Mallard Creek wanting to play golf but another record setting heat wave is rolling through the NW....so, with nothing better to do it came to mind to share my experiences with the basement air unit in our Marquis.

First off, the SCS basement air is wonderful in performing it's basic task which is cooling the coach.  Even with the outside temp approaching 100 and going to 105, Pat needs to keep her feet covered to prevent frostbite.  Part of it's efficiency is that this unit moves a LOT of air and it's very cold sitting in the air outlet path.  Even though the inside temp is 78, it feels much cooler due to the air movement.  So this much is a all good.

On the negative side was the original SCS thermostat.  Either mine was having an issue or it just a poor design.  Regardless replacing it with the Dometic made a world off difference in control.

Another negative is the hot air from the outside air fan would dump under the coach which gave us a constant hot wind blowing onto the patio area that was more that just a little annoying.  For a temporary fix I got a cardboard box opened on side to form a long (~5') flap.  I tucked the top flaps over the gen exhaust pipe and let the rest flop down at an angle toward the street side.  Not a long term solution but easy to do and we'll be in this spot for another 6 weeks or so.  Great fix, no more politician (hot air) and it also muffles the noise.   When we get home Fred has a more permanent solution he used on Prevosts and others that we'll look at.

The filter is a major pain.  For some reason BCS delivered the coach without a filter in place so I was scrambling trying to find one and get it installed.  The size is weird, about 18 X11 so I ended up modifying one from Ace.  Of course access is a flaming b**** but with the help of C.W. Holman (another Beaver member) we got one in place.  On mine, I have to remove a panel on the AC unit to get access to a flip down cover on the air inlet plenum.  Not too bad except a bundle of water lines hangs down right in front of the plenum cover and meantime your body is crammed under the slide leaning over the big hoses.  Needless to say this whole thing is on my resign list.

Overall, I'm quite satisfied with the basement air even thought there are some correctable shortcomings.  For cooling it's superior to the roof top AC units on my PT and that is what truly counts.
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Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 12:16:15 AM »
Dick,
Glad you have it working satisfactorily. As I noted last week, adding a multi-directional ceiling vent in the salon (middle vent) seems to make a significant improvement in air distribution. Will verify on an upcoming  trip to the mid-west.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Fred Brooks

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 02:13:41 PM »
              Hello Dick,

     How are you and Pat doing? Glad to hear that your air conditioner is working to your satisfaction and the t-stat upgrade is keeping you cool. That SMC t-stat is maginal at best. I am looking forward to see how Steve's ceiling register upgrade works. I have been using super magnets and some 20 gauge sheet metal covers to control air flow from the ceiling registers. During the daytime, I cover a register in the lavy and bedroom to increase velocity up in the living room where all the glass is. I like the idea of Steve's register will divert the air side to side as opposed to front to rear. I'm curious if Steve will have any rattles with the damper mechinism in the register. Steve please let us know.
           Regards, Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

Dick Simonis

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 05:00:20 PM »
Fred, we're doing well.  The ruptured tendon in my shoulder seems to be responding to the Cortisone shot and therapy so golf has become less of an exercise in pain management.

Looking at your comments regarding the AC vent, I find it very interesting that changes to the vents are necessary to increase the air flow.  We have do much air that yesterday even at 104 outside Pat had to cover her legs and occasionally step outside to warm up.  When the outside temp dropped to the low 90's I had to cut off one compressor and switch to low speed fan.

My coach has the brass vents with an adjustable flapper thingy so it make me wonder if the wood vents have less open area.  Have you tried removing one of the outlets and check how much air come out the open hole.

Today another hot one at 103...cooler in Tucson.

Carol Moffett

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2015, 11:13:47 PM »
Hello all!
   I am finding this thread very interesting!  Keith and I also have an `02 Marquis with basement air.  It did not work when we bought the coach so BCS had their AC guy pull it, fix it and recharge it.  It works, but IMHO, it blows!  And not in a good way!  Lol!  Keith is not as critical, and perhaps part of the problem is my own "personal summer's", but it would sure be nice to not have to stop what I'm doing to go stand directly under the register to get cool!
   We have the adjustable louvered brass covers, and for the most part, they seem to work ok but the register in the kitchen area hardly blows any air at all.  I don't believe it's because of the cover...We were told that, because of the way the coach was built, that the ducting narrows in this area and not to expect much air out of it.
   I can't imagine that a new thermostat would help in this area but I sure would like to know why ours doesn't work as well as Dick and Pat's!  That sounds like Heaven!
Any thoughts?  Thank you!
Carol   :^3=~
   
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 11:20:13 PM by Carol Moffett »
Carol Moffett (better half of Keith)
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Fred Brooks

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 02:55:55 AM »
        Hi Carol,

   Our coach has the same issue as yours and I imagine all Marquis with the center common duct work front to rear. Theoretically here is how the system is supposed to be engineered. As the duct work gets further away from the inlet pressure, it should become smaller and smaller so as to maintain a consistant static pressure that is the same from the center all the way to the ends. (Hope i'm not losing you with this explanation) What that means is if it were engineered correctly, you would have the same volumn and velocity out of each vent from front to rear. However, as great as these coaches are, they have there flaws. The only way to balance the outlets is to start restricting the outlet registers at the end of the ductwork to increase the airflow in the galley or center outlets. I beleive the '02 have adjustable registers so play with the adjustment at the ends and partially close them. This is all based on an air conditioner system that has a clean filter and is operating at proper efficientcy (20 degree difference between discharge temperature and return air temperature.
           Hope this helps, Regards Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2015, 05:59:43 AM »
Carol,
We had a similar problem after getting our 2000 Marquis a couple of years ago. We found that reducing  the heat load helps considerably. All lights were converted to LEDs. We also had exterior sun screens installed. They are much more effective than the ones that mount inside the windshield. Also be sure to change the filter once a year at least. Fred covered the other items I thought of.

Fred, I doubt that I'll get any noise/rattling from the new vent. The adjustment is pretty stiff. http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,4792.msg35776.html#msg35776  but I'll let you know.
BTW, I'm surprised you had to go to a plate to block the air at the bath vent. Didn't closing the vent provide enough restriction?
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Fred Brooks

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2015, 02:36:45 PM »
            Hi Steve,
    The a/c registers in my coach are wood and have no adjustments. That is one of the reasons I am following your adventure with the metal adjustable register. If it performs satisfactory, I am going to replace my wood registers with the ones you are using so I can "balance" the static pressure with in the duct work. Thanks for mentioning other factors that work against your ability to cool and maintain a comfortable temperature. Awnings, silver thermal bubble wrap, and sun shade all contribute as we soon learn.
           Regards, Fred
Fred & Cindy Brooks
2000 Marquis, Jasper
C-12 Wild Cat (U of A)
2014 Honda CRV
Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

Carol Moffett

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2015, 10:59:38 PM »
Thank you Fred and Steve!
   We do have an outside windshield cover but don't use it because we have an inside draw down shade that is much easier to use...although it is mesh and let's in a considerable amount of light.  I like light and probably need to keep the Roman blinds down instead of just the day shades...gotta give to get, in this life, I suppose!  Lol!  I am looking at that cover of Steve's for a few spots.  It would be nice to feel something while sitting on the couch!  And I will play with Fred's suggestion and try to finagle the louvers around at the ends!
Thanks again!
Carol
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Carol Moffett (better half of Keith)
Totally Gorgeous, 45ft 2007 Patriot Thunder "ZOLA"
CAT C-13
2006 Ford Explorer Ltd, as toad
  :^3=~

Dick Simonis

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2015, 08:49:05 PM »
Carol,

Reading you comments about the kitchen AC vent not having much airflow got me thinking.  Since we have pretty similar coaches I should have the same issue....and i do to some extent.  This louvers in this vent face forward and while it appears to have good airflow it all comes out of the vent almost dead horizontal and just blows straight down the roof line.  My first though that adding a baffle downstream of vent might help so I pulled the vent and low and behold, Beaver already did that.

My next step was to install the vent with the louvers facing aft.  It doesn't fit perfect and now the louvers won't adjust (small detail) and suddenly have very good airflow.  There is something about the interaction of the adjustable louvers with the duct airflow that needs to be looked at more carefully but the initial results are promising.  You might ask Kieth to turn your vent around and see what happens.

In our case this might be a very good thing since our dining room is a bit aft of the kitchen and has been in a dead space for AC air.  I'll see what happens when it gets warm enough today for the compressor to kick on.

Carol Moffett

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 11:21:33 AM »
Thank you, Dick! 
   We will definitely be taking a closer look at it when we are down in Bend later next week.  It's not been hot enough here for AC!  Lol, it will be there, tho!  It would be nice to get this resolved.  Thanks again!
:^3=~
Carol Moffett (better half of Keith)
Totally Gorgeous, 45ft 2007 Patriot Thunder "ZOLA"
CAT C-13
2006 Ford Explorer Ltd, as toad
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Dick Simonis

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 02:49:21 PM »
Carol,

After turning that vent yesterday, I can attest that the difference is remarkable.  Quite chilly in the dining room.

Carol Moffett

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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2015, 11:02:42 PM »
Awesome Dick!  That is very heartening!  I will try to remember to report back when we have the time to address this!
Thanks!
:^3=~
Carol Moffett (better half of Keith)
Totally Gorgeous, 45ft 2007 Patriot Thunder "ZOLA"
CAT C-13
2006 Ford Explorer Ltd, as toad
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Re: Living with Basement Air
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2015, 04:58:47 AM »
After 2 days and 1000 miles with the basement air running, I can report that the adjustable vent is working as designed. In  fact, DW has complained about too much cool air on  her. I have it installed in the 2nd opening from front of coach. Will move to kitchen to resolve DW's air flow issue.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp
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