97 Patriot Cooling fan fluid leak

[Edward Buker]

Gary, I have been reading this posting with some interest and have been asking myself what would I do in your situation. My inclination would be to try and determine what the root cause is with some measurements, before removing components, if at all possible. A lot of shops are used to changing things out and following the paths of trial and error that they have been using for years to correct the problem. There must be a better way....

Certainly an IR gun comes to mind as a device to look at surface temperatures. Radiators can be scanned to see if there are indications of poor coolant flow patterns as well as thermastat housings and hoses for abnormal temperatures. Mapping a good working system for the temperature "footprints" vs your problem system would have to yield some differences and hopefully some clues as to the root cause.

Regarding the cooling fan, knowing the fan RPM at certain engine RPMs while the temperature is approaching an overheating condition would be useful knowledge. This profile on your coach vs one that has been cooling effectively would either indicate that the fan hydaulic system is the problem or not. These instruments in the scheme of things are relatively inexpensive nowadays and may yield the information you are looking for to assure that you are fixing the component that is the root cause of your problem. The IR guns are about $100 dollars and this laser tachometer is just over $200.

The IR gun is aimed at a surface to obtain reflected emissivity and the RPM instrument uses a laser and a piece of reflective tape placed on the fan to count revolutions.

I know this is a bit late and the fan motor is now off.  I thought that I would pass this along for food for thought for all of us on the forum who might have a future cooling issue.

 Just in case the fan motor is not the problem. Perhaps there is another Patriot owner out there that would be willing to map his working system with these instruments. It would serve two purposes, knowing what a working cooling system profile is as a reference for the future and maybe provide Gary with some problem solving insight. Gary, if the fan motor does not solve your problem you may want to consider buying these instruments and finding a working coach owner to profile his cooling system. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

http://www.transcat.com/catalog/productdetail.aspx?itemnum=99037TS


http://www.amazon.com/Raytek-Infrared-Temperature-Gun-RAYST25/dp/B000I2UKB4

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Update:
Motor pulled and my mechanic started dismanteling it. So far shows no contamination that would cause failure. Our motorhome has 110,000 miles on it and he thinks it is just a worn out motor.

He understands hydraulic systems as he built them from scratch for several years including fluid and electronic or other controls. He talks in the same terms as Arden Smith above. I should know what the final outcome and time frame will be next week.

[Gary ENGEN]

Update on Cooling Fan Motor on my 1996 Beaver Patriot:
 This morning, Stephen, at Berendsen Hydraulics in Marietta, GA (a distributor for Sauer Danfoss) called and verified that Sauer Danfoss could build a new motor to replace the one on my CAT engine  for $476.03 and have it ready in 3-4 days. So that is what I'm going to do.  I'll provide an update when I get everything on and working again. Hopefully the engine will be running  (and cooling properly) within next couple of weeks.
Gary Engen
'96 Beaver Patriot Savannah
Augusta, GA

[Richard And Babs Ames]

I also talked to Berendsen Fluid Power, Marietta (Georgia),  (770) 419-3430 and Steven and he verified that my model TAM22-90/26.5 C107RULE/6F can be built for $396.69 with a 60 day window and expedited for 20% to a 3-4 day build time or $476.03 same as gengen plus shipping. They can have it shipped anywhere.

Update: Ordered on the 3-4 day build.

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Update on pump order through Berendsen Fluid Power, Marietta (Georgia),  (770) 419-3430 and Steven last Thursday 07/15/2010 and it shipped Friday 07/16/2010 and is due 07/22/2010 using regular UPS ground shipping. The "build" in four days turned out to be in stock, so the extra 20% was a bit of a sting.  

[Gary ENGEN]

Update on pump I also order through Berendsen Fluid Power, Marietta (Georgia), : Mine arrived in mail yesterday evening (20 July) straight from factory in Ames, Iowa. Looks great; now I'm just waiting for my old pump that is being returned via mail from Beaver Sales/Service, Bend, OR. As soon as I get that one back I'll bring it and new one to my local RV repair facility to install back on my '96 Beaver. Hopefully all will be well then and I can run again without over heating!
Gary Engen
Augusta, GA
'96 Beaver Patriot

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Received new motor today and took to mechanic. It matched so should be up and running in a couple of days. Shipping was under $20 regular UPS.

Ran into a snag. When the two bolt cover was removed it is the three bolt switch. The mechanic who has built a lot of systems is having an adapter plate machined to accomodate instead of waiting three months for a new assembly.

[Gary ENGEN]

My RV service mechanic just called to say that the "switch valve" on the old motor was not a 2-bolt assembly but instead that there are actually 4 bolts attaching it to the motor so it will not fit on the new motor that is drilled for a 2-bolt switch. I'll have to go down to look at it myself  but in the  interim I've called (had to leave message) Berendsen's in Marietta, GA  (Distributor for the Sauer Danfoss motors) to see what they have to say. As I said in a previous post, I was told by the folks out at Beaver Service in Bend, OR (where I had shipped my motor  initially) that it had a 2 bolt connection for the switch valve; but now find out that there appears to be 4 bolts securing it.  NOW WHAT TO DO?? I'll keep y'all posted on this mess. Maybe I can get some sort of adapter made too.  
Gary Engen
Augusta, GA
'96 Beaver Patriot

[Gary ENGEN]

I took some pictures this morning of the old & new motors along with the old switch valve (that does not fit new motor). I am emailing photo's  to Berendsen Hydraulics who have said that it may be possible to order a new switch valve to match the new fan motor but it is manufactured by "Dynamatic" (sp ?) in the UK and would take a couple months to get and that is only if the specs on the old switch motor can be determined.
  Richard Ames: I am anxious to hear results of the adapter you are having made for yours as it appears we have the same new motor and perhaps the same old switch valve. Maybe your mechanic can also make an adapter for mine. Below are a few pictures I took of the items today.
Gary Engen
'96 Beaver Patriot

[Richard And Babs Ames]

My guy gets back from his Alaska Vacation the 3rd of August and I will show him your pictures and let you know something.  

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Talked to the mechanic and he said the four bolt holes are so you can orient the three bolt switch housing and the adaptor looks is going to work OK. Will install early this week and we shall see. gengen send me your contact information via private message or e mail.

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Install complete and the new motor seems to turn the fan faster than the old one. Should mean better cooling. Rodney from Red E Services Inc here in Arcadia,FL is a very good mechanic and used to build hydraulic systems. He has done several things for us using available resources instead of waiting for specific parts.

Having the cooling units cleaned tomorrow as  the radiator, charge cooler,oil and hydraulic coolers all got drenched by Dexron fluid the Radiator shop is run by the third generation and extremely good at what they do.

[johnlynn]

We have a 94 Patriot down with a hydraulic fan motor leak @ the Cummins shop in Fargo ND.  The only fix they haring  found (after they were referred to this Thread) was to have a new orbit motor made by Sauer Danfoss (I assume) with the 4 - 6 week delivery time.  I wonder if Navistar management treat truck fleet breakdowns in the same casual manner?  Can the association or Good Sam bring some pressure to bear?  A bulletin to all Beaver owners stating the cause of the problem (heat, contamination of oil supply, substantard seals, etc.) seems to be in order as I am among serveral Beaver owners with this problem.  Monaco, HR, and the suits running that outfit should be held to account as well.  JOHNLYNN

[Richard And Babs Ames]

johnlynn Our Fan with the 4 to 6 week delivery was $398 and for a 20% up charge got it in 5 days. We ordered on a Thursday and it shipped on Friday (Sauer Danfoss had it on a shelf) and it ended up costing a bit over $500 with shipping.

 The kicker is the fan switch is now a two bolt design and not part of the motor as we went through in getting ours fixed. The switch is made in England and has a 12 week order time or you can do as we did my mechanic had an adaptor plate ($130) made that allowed us to use the old switch. See pictures above. With labor ended up arround $1200.