Author Topic: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter  (Read 39149 times)

David T. Richelderfer

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2015, 03:34:12 AM »
I have done more research.  I stopped by the Tire Factory shop, Nelson Tire, in The Dalles, Oregon about 1 1/2 weeks ago.  Nelson Tire is an approved Michelin Advantage tire provider in the FMCA program.  Matt at Nelson Tire answered all my questions and found ten tires in Portland that fit my needs - Michelin XZE2+ tires.  Matt also suggested I use the Tire Factory shop in Pasco, Washington due to mileage from my residence.

Today I called the Pasco Tire Factory shop and was again greeted by Matt; a different Matt but every bit as helpful.  Matt found three tires in Reno, NV that he would recommend.  Next I called the FMCA and registered my credit card anticipating a 5-tire purchase from Matt in Pasco.  Next I went through the FMCA tire/price list on the FMCA website to find the tires I wanted.  I found five good choices:

X COACH XZ    my cost: $683.70  part# 28798
X COACH HHLZ              $670.80           31078
XZE2+                          $687.65           69619
XZE2+                          $688.00           81993
XZA2NRG                      $666.50           76807

The two X COACH entries, the top two on my list, have slightly higher load ratings and allow 123 psi maximum cold pressure as compared to the other tires on the list with 120 psi maximum.  I asked Matt to find for me five of the X COACH HHLZ tires.  He soon called back to inform me he has five of them in his warehouse in Pasco.  The problem is their DATE CODE is about 18 months old.  Damn, now what?  I can accept six months...  but 18 months?  Should I ask him for a 10% price reduction?
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Joel Ashley

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2015, 04:42:31 AM »
Thought you were inclined to the Toyo's, David.  If now zeroing in on the Michelins, I reckon I'd ask Matt if he can't find and transfer in newer date coded tires from another Tire Factory warehouse.

-Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2015, 04:09:18 PM »
Joel - I was and I did.  But since we are not quite ready to make like a snowbird until mid October, I decided to use the time to do more tire research and consideration.  One item was Nelson Tire's opinion of Toyos.  Matt's opinion is Toyos are a step down from Yokohamas.  Plus, now Mr. Sprague put that 5,000 mile U-joint and drive line notice in the Forum.

It's been two years so I was going to take the coach out to Eagle-Freightliner before departing for a lookover and mention these specifics - inspect/adjust brakes, inspect/lubricate wheel bearings, analyze engine and transmission oils, perhaps change some filters - and now I will add greasing the U-joints and drive line.  I printed the U-joint and drive line greasing directions provided by Mr. Sprague so Eagle-Freightliner will have them if they don't already.

Another thought/question...  I am thinking it's unrealistic to assume we can normally get tires with a date code within a few weeks or even months of purchase.  So... does that time from manufacture date to installation date count (much) on the 7-year clock to get tires swapped out?  The five tires I am wanting to swap out have date codes that are now just over seven years.  Can I make the assumption that these tires were likely installed, say, 6 1/2 years, ago.  And therefore, I could reasonably wait until after Winter to swap them out?
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Joel Ashley

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2015, 09:44:20 PM »
As I understand it, the clock on RV tires starts at manufacture, because unlike automotive tires that are on the highway all the time squeezing protective chemicals to their surfaces, RV tires sit parked a lot;  protective chemicals aren't circulated much without the regular flexing of the rubber compound.  Automotive tires wear out, RV tires time out - although I guess different chemistry is used to help compensate, that is the general rule.

I know you already get that, and others here are certainly more versed in tire technology than I am.  I'm anxious to not spend the money right now, but our '06 is riding on factory tires - 9 years old, but only 16,300 miles on them.  They've spent a lot more time parked, which is why, if we ever can get away from here yet this year, I mean to get new ones, probably at Bob Dickman's in Junction City, before many more miles are put on the rig.  Then a chassis checkup and Safe-T-Plus at Henderson's.  I'll feel a lot more at ease.  The Goodyears have been pretty good tires;  they ride and handle good, show very little wear, and pretty much have held their air with rare addition over 9 years.  They look almost new, which just makes it more difficult, besides the expense for such few miles gleaned, to change them out.  As an aside, last week I finally swapped the original Goodyear Wranglers at 36,000 miles out for Michelins on our '97 F-150; 18 years, mostly parked in the garage.

I don't know that I'd sweat the 7 year clock on your existing codes - that's a general guideline, not written in stone.  Some say 6 years, some up to 10, although I don't subscribe to that.  If we'd been able to get the coach on the road, I'd have likely sprung for new tires a year ago.  I think I'd consider myself, if I were you, in the market for new tires anytime in the next year, and when I come across relatively newly minted ones at an acceptable price I'll jump.  If you are more anxious, I'd certainly do a lot more calling around now for more recent date codes instead of waiting and fretting it.

From what others here have indicated, I'm not sure that Matt is correct, either, regarding the Toyos.  They seem to be decent tires at a more reasonable price.  Maybe Matt doesn't sell Toyos, and has that as a reason to be playing them down?  If I recall your numbers correctly, 5 of them would be nearly $900 less than Michelins.

-Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
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Joel Ashley

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2015, 04:31:30 AM »
Today I spoke with Robert Henderson of Henderson's Line-up, and got some new information.  Admittedly I haven't yet spoken with Bob Dickman's Les Schwab at Junction City, but I'm a little more informed than before.  Henderson's uses state of the art balancing equipment and orders tire's as needed out of a Roseburg warehouse.  Regardless of where they come from, I'll be making a stink about getting recently made tires.  They'll be putting a Safe-T-Plus stabilizer on at Henderson's, probably dong the oil and fuel filter maintenance I originally had deemed for Peterson's near Coburg, and running their chassis assessment program.  Their reputation provides a good deal of confidence in Henderson's, albeit not necessarily in my wallet  ;D.

Since the Michelin Advantage program essentially dictates the same price regardless of dealer, I may just have Henderson's do everything.  That makes the main choice for me whether to go with the less expensive Toyos at Junction City or the Michelins.  Tomorrow I hope to hear more from Henderson's office re. the actual Michelin cost, and explore whether they install Toyos and their opinion.  I just put Michelins on my F-150 after 18 years of Wranglers, and of course new tire's feel nicer in all regards.  This will likely color my decision, but with other big expenses ahead at BCS in Bend the middle of next month, my tire choices may ultimately come down to out-of-pocket.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2015, 05:00:49 AM »
I decided to wait until after this Winter to replace my five tires... which by then will be over 7 1/2 years old from their date of manufacture, vis-à-vis, their date code.  Using the Michelin Advantage program I can get new Michelins NRGs (energies) for about $670 each plus mounting and balancing of $50 each.

The most significant factor in my decision was not being able to find five Michelins with dates codes less than over a year old already.  I was told Michelin stops making coach tires during the Summer to start making winter tires.  Then in late winter Michelin will resume making coach tires.  At that time there should be Michelin coach tires available again with fairly new date codes.  We'll see......
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KC Snellgrove

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2015, 04:09:31 AM »
Good evening. I also am shopping for tires and have always purchased my tires from Les Schwab primarily because I love the service. I have always purchased Toyo's for my vehicles. I went there last week to seek information on Michelin's verses Toyo's. I talked to Dave at Milwaukie, Oregon shop asking him specifically about the FMCA discount and why Les Schwa does not participate with the discount program? He told me the people at FMCA would not approve them. So why is that? Why can FMCA embrace other tire carriers and not Les Schwab? I would like to know what you all think!  :-\

KC Snellgrove
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Olivia Jean

Joel Ashley

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2015, 06:01:05 AM »
You may have been given misinformation, KC, or at least that franchise's interpretation.  Bob Dickman's Les Schwab in Junction City does participate, and probably has the most motorhome experience of all Les Schwab's.

I was going to go there on the way down to Henderson's in Grants Pass, but discovered Henderson's is a participant too.  If I opt for the Michelins over Toyo, I might as well make just one stop - Henderson's.  Why?  Because the Michelin Advantage price is the same at all participating Michelin dealers.

Joel
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2015, 01:25:49 PM »
My understanding is to qualify for the Michelin Advantage program the dealership must daily or regularly deal with all types of vehicles from autos to heavy trucks to motorhomes.  Another example, the Tire Factory in The Dalles, OR is approved for the Michelin Advantage program but the Tire Factory in Hermiston, OR is not approved.  All three Tire Factory outlets in the Tri-Cities, WA are approved... probably because all three have the same franchise owner.  Of course, the tire dealership probably has to apply for approval too.
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KC Snellgrove

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2015, 09:05:50 PM »
Joel I so look forward to meeting you - you are a fountain of excellent information. I appreciate all of you guys comments and hope to meet each and every one of you. I am also headed to  Henderson's, but I did not know they supplied tires. My concern is if I do not purchase tires from Les Schwab and go with Henderson's what about if I have a problem? I would sincerely appreciate knowing whether you purchase Michelin or Toyo's, since it is my understanding they will need to be replaced within 5 years regardless due to less natural rubber and more synthetic used in production. By the way where is there a good scale to weight motorhomes. I live just off of Theissen.

KC Snellgrove
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Joel Ashley

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2015, 02:11:44 AM »
A lot of State scales are commonly available, KC, especially those not on freeways but rather on State highways.  With the old Pace Arrow, I used to regularly stop at any I happened to pass while on trips, but since getting the Beaver, I stopped doing that;  our particular model has so much more carrying capacity than most, I doubt I could ever overload it.  The only reason I'd stop at a scales might be because I was curious about the weight of a particular corner or side due to some change in my normal loading pattern.  When we had the RVSEF weigh us in 2007, loaded to the ceilings, I recall we still had 3400lbs. to go, if we could find that much storage volume somewhere - short coach on heavy chassis is likely why.

I might suggest the State scales just below me on Highway 212/224 between Clackamas and Carver junction, just east of 142nd Ave., on the north side of the road.  I rarely see any trucks using it, and only about half the time is there an ODOT officer manning it.  Just drive in from the east entry from the left turn lane (if coming from Thiessen across I-205).  I've yet to pass an empty Oregon scales facility where the scales weren't left on for anyone to use;  the digital screen is on a pole in front of you and easily seen.  If there's a truck already there, just be patient and wait your turn.  Then there's no hurry unless a truck comes in behind you, but I've never had that happen at the 212 location... it's always been empty.  If it happens to be manned when you arrive, they likely will be happy to assist you.

If you have occasion to go over Mt. Hood, there is a scale near Brightwood as I recall.  You could also check the State ODOT website - they probably list scale locations.

5 years timeout on the tires is a bit extreme.  The standard seems to vary depending on who you talk to.  A local mechanic the other day suggested that as long as there is no cracking, alligatoring, or other noticed flaws, he'd not buy new, especially with minimal miles (16,000 on mine) and very little solar exposure.  He does a lot of business with the Clackamas Les Schwab's, and they are a good outlet that I've also purchased from for several decades.  I've had more than one Les Schwab dealership, including Clackamas, run a routine inspection and tell me the same thing as the local mechanic.  But most here follow a 6-7 year guideline I think, and my Goodyears are at 9.  Most of that was parked here by the house, esp. the last few years;  lack of travel and intra-tire chemical stimulation is a good reason in itself to get new ones. 

As Dave discovered, the Toyos are significantly cheaper even than the Michelin Advantage deal.  If you buy at Henderson's, that doesn't mean you can't get service from any other dealer of that brand anywhere in the country.  Les Schwab has done free leak/plug repairs several times on tires I didn't buy from them, and I send my daughters and grandkids there for tire repairs.  They've also fixed non-automotive tires for me at no charge.  That's one reason they built such a good reputation and successful business when Les was running the show.  If you are still concerned, I'd seriously lean toward the less costly Toyos from either your Milwaukie store or Bob Dickman's Les Schwab in Junction City.

I'm still up in the air on which brand and dealer, but will have to decide before too long.  Henderson's would have to order Michelins out of a Roseburg warehouse, and I'll want them to check the date codes at the warehouse first.  Bob Dickman is a busy motor home tire facility, that likely has their own stock, and moves enough tires that perhaps they normally have newer codes;  I haven't talked to them yet.  Still trying to juggle our personal schedule.  Henderson's has state-of-the-art balancing equipment, which after having Goodyear Portland use theirs to discover anomalies in our Monaco factory wheel weight installation that caused a slight vibration, is important to me.  I'd think Bob Dickman's would have modern digital balancers also, due to their sales volume for large tires, but I don't know for sure as yet.

-Joel

 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 02:20:41 AM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Joel Ashley

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2015, 10:42:25 PM »
Update:

6 Toyos from Bob Dickman Les Schwab (295 80R 22.5) are $3301.80 all inclusive.  They couldn't give me a Michelin Advantage price because, as we've found out before, its a universal price set by Michelin to whom you pay directly - the dealers are only charging for their services and fees.  They did give me a ball park of ~$4500, and mentioned they are around $1000 more than Toyos.

In discussing date codes, they said owners have become overly concerned about the issue, that it is somewhat of a myth that the mfr. date code is so absolutely critical, and that the more important date is when the tires are actually put in service.  It can take months after manufacturing for a tire to be shipped, and longer stored in a warehouse, and perhaps then at a dealership.  The fellow I talked to at Dickman's said that pretty much industry-wide is a first-in, first-out rule;  so the oldest received tires are picked first out of a dealership or a warehouse upon ordering.  This all indicates to me that it may be a fruitless effort to call all over the place trying to locate youthful tires.

Upon contacting Henderson's again to see if they sell Toyos, I was told no, because in their experience Toyos don't wear as well as Michelin's.  That said, in our case we don't put a lot of miles down, so wear may not be that much of a factor.

Any further commentary from you guys will be welcome.

-Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
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LaMonte Monnell

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2015, 11:55:45 PM »
Well Joel, I have had Toyo's on my Contessa for almost 4 years. I keep them covered when parked always. I put only about 3500 miles a year on the coach as I only part time right now....Still look as new as the day they were put on in January of 2011.
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Larry Williams

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2015, 07:43:10 PM »
David,

I wanted to add a little info on the sales tax issue with the FMCA Michelin Advantage program. I know you live in Oregon and expect to pay no sales tax because of your residency. But the FMCA Michelin program does not work like that. They charge sales tax based on the rate in effect at the servicing dealership, not residency. In my case this worked to my advantage because my dealer was in Oregon which has no sales tax so I was not charged any by FMCA. That was the main reason I went to an Oregon dealer rather than my local dealer in Pasco. Even though the tire price would be the same, I would have been charged Washington sales tax by FMCA.

I know you have decided to wait, but you should consider the sales tax issue when you buy. It is not a trivial figure on this large of a purchase. You might talk them into an exemption for you based on residency, but don't count on it.

Larry

Joel Ashley

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Re: It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2015, 08:56:43 PM »
Well, as it turns out, Henderson's supplier in Roseburg only had 2 XAZA2 NRG Michelin's in stock, and when they called around they found no source aside from South Carolina, which they didn't consider a viable option for me considering the shipping cost.  They suggested I call Bob Dickman/Les Schwab again and see if they had 4 or more;  Schwab's warehouse did, and they'll have 6 in Junction City for me next week. 

Dickman/Schwab's still were pushing the $1000+ cheaper Toyo option at that point.  When I again pressed Henderson's for their opinion of Toyo, they still vehemently held to the notion that they wear relatively quickly, at least the ones they've seen in their business, and one of their fellows was actually quite upset that I might get Toyos.  They made the point that Schwab moves a lot of Toyos like it was their brand, likely a profit leader for the company.  Keep in mind that Henderson's has nothing to gain with those opinions, since they had no Michelins to sell to me except the 2, and encouraged me to get all 6 in one trip at Schwab's.  Schwab's noted that the latest built Michelins were from early 2014, no way around that, and the Toyos are from earlier this year, but both they and Henderson's indicate that has far less meaning than the date put in service.  Schwab's mentioned at one point that the Toyos had undergone a recent redesign and reformulation, which hints to me that they were aware of past wear issues theoretically now resolved.  Henderson's hadn't heard of any Toyo redesign, but didn't discount the possibility.

I don't recall which of the two dealers told me that Michelin had overproduced these tires in 2014, and backed off this year's production accordingly, thus a shortage overall this fall;  as Dave I think had mentioned here, they produce so many of one type tire, then switch molds to accomodate seasonal demand, etc., and may not go back to the other for many months even if the stock overall runs low or out.  Now, that said, one would think with an industry-wide warehousing policy of first-in/first-out, that the remaining stock would have 2015 codes, not 2014.  Go figger. 

Henderson's mentioned there is a new Michelin factory in Canada, to more fully service North America, but they aren't yet fully operational.  Perhaps Dave will benefit from that by waiting, but my Goodyears will reach 10 years by then.  Speaking of which, Henderson's mentioned that though the Toyos they are familiar with (likely not the new design) have a stiffer-riding rubber formulation, that even they would ride better than my Goodyears from 2006 - although my old ones show little wear or deterioration, I'd notice the difference regardless of which I go with, Toyo or Michelin.

-Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat