Author Topic: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint  (Read 15619 times)

Russ Mann

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CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« on: September 27, 2015, 08:00:08 PM »
Coach is a 2006 40' Monterey with the C9 and Allison 3000, 56,000 miles.

During traveling Highway 1 from San Diego to Newport Oregon a bad vibration and "clunk noise" started. Vibration varies with RPM and is most prevalent when under power or climbing a grade. Vibration goes away after downshifting when descending a grade or when coasting on flat grade. Vibration is in ALL gears, with or without exhaust brake engaged. Had rear tires removed, inspected and balanced at Superior Tire in Eugene, tires are Michelin and have no issues.

"Clunk" occurs when whenever accelerator pedal is depressed or released. Sounds like a "U" joint or gear play being removed and happens on both hills and flat terrain.

Transmission full service 4,000 miles ago, noise and vibration started about 1,500 miles ago. Engine checked by CAT service 6,000 miles ago and new oil pump installed due to "low oil pressure" instances recorded in computer. Engine normally at 28 to 40 psi.

I'm thinking that the extreme slow down/speed up transitions on the hilly Coastal Highway 1 may have caused the clunk noise and vibration seeing that they both started at the same time on this road.

Anyone have this problem and what was the cause? Ideas? Thinking of taking it to Smith Power Products Allison Dealer in Sparks, Nevada. Has anyone used them and can directly relate to their competence?


Lee Welbanks

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2015, 08:54:12 PM »
Russ,

You need to get under and check out your U-Joints, sounds like a U-Joint is coming apart, if you spit that drive shaft out you can cause some real serious damage. Stop driving it and check the drive shaft and U-Joints.

Dave Atherton

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 12:35:40 AM »
Russ, good case in point. Just returned from Roy Mueller service motorhome rally at his place in MO.
One motorhome Durning inspection with group Roy pointed out one bolt missing on driveline cap
and other side bolt was loose. I just happened to have a part of a driveline I used in seminar at
Branson rally that caused many thousands to repair motorhome. Today do not trust no one when it
come to Quailty service ( it's not happening in many cases ) one thing we need to understand more
and more as our motorhomes get older and more mile miles things are going to happen. In the
Above case the missing bolt has caused $ 6,000. Plus of which have part of the driveshaft to show
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Lee Welbanks

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2015, 02:12:09 AM »
Most service places and grease monkey's don't grease a drive shaft correctly, you are supposed to get new grease out of all four cups, and on the slip joint you pump until grease comes out the bleed hole in the center of the yoke. On my PT it had been serviced often and by good places, BUT and I do mean But the first time I greased it I had to pump almost a full tube of grease into the slip joint and one of the cups on the rear end side of the shaft would not take grease, had to loosen the cap up and give it a couple of wacks with a big hammer to back out the cap a smig then pump the grease to it, has been fine since. Spicer has a whole book on do and don'ts with drive shafts and U Joints.

Bill Sprague

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2015, 02:47:27 PM »
Monaco issued a long forgotten and often ignored service bulletin around 2005 or 2006.  I have a PDF copy that I can e-mail to anyone that wants it.  At a Monaco sponsored forum it was stated that part of the "problem" is that the drive shaft is so short compared to other over the road applications.   

The original includes some drawings that won't show up here.  Basically is says you will grease your drive shaft every 5,000 miles!

It is actually easy if you get the right tools and do it on days when the grease in the gun is warm.  Cold grease in a new cartridge can cause air locks.  My version of easy was to get a pneumatic grease gun with a double length hose.  I bought an Ingersoll Rand version at Lowes for about $50.  Plug in to a compressor or the motorhome air system with the engine running.  You can get throw away coveralls in the paint department at Lowes.  Wiggle under, lay the gun on your chest and find the zerk fittings as described in the ebullient.  Attach and hold the nozzle on the zerk with one hand and squeeze the trigger with the other. 

"Real" men will say you can do it with a hand gun.  I found that I must not be "real" enough. 

The text from the service bulletin: 

Drive Shaft Addendum For all model year diesel products

The information printed here reflects product design, fabrication, and component parts at the date of printing. The manufacturer reserves the right, at any time, to make changes in product design or material or component specifications as its sole option, without notice. This includes the substitution of components of a different brand or trade name, which will result in comparable performance. All information printed in this document is subject to change after the date of printing. Due to product improvements, changes during the model year and/or transcription errors that may occur, information represented within the owner’s manual and/or this document may not be accurate at the time of your purchase. Please confirm any information with your dealer.

The following information supercedes previous information and applies to all motorhomes equipped with a Roadmaster Chassis. ©Monaco Coach Corporation.

 All rights reserved. All other trademarks or registered trademarks are property of their respective holders. Brand name products of other companies mentioned in this addendum are not endorsed by Monaco Coach Corporation.

Drive Shaft: The drive shaft transfers the power produced by the engine to the drive axle. A worn or out-of-balance drive shaft causes chassis vibration that generally increases in intensity with road speed.

Lubrication Maintenance The drive shaft requires periodic lubrication maintenance. Lubricate the slip joint and universal joints every 5,000 miles or 6 months, whichever occurs first. Use NLGI #2 chassis lubricant.

NOTE: It will be necessary to move the motorhome forward or backward to access all grease fittings on the drive shaft.

Greasing the Drive Shaft Universal Joints:

1. Check the drive shaft for looseness. Repair if loose or worn.

2. Apply lubricant at the grease fitting(s) on the universal joint. Apply until new grease purges from all the seals.

3. If new grease does not purge at the seals, loosen the bearing cap bolts and re-grease until all four caps purge. If new grease still does not purge, disassemble and clean or replace the universal joint.

Greasing the Drive Shaft Slip Yoke and Splines:

1. Check the drive shaft for looseness. Repair if loose or worn. 2. With finger, cover the rear air hole. This will force lubricant to front seal. Apply lubricant at the grease fitting on the slip joint until new grease purges and forces finger away from the air hole in the end of the slip joint.

Warning: Rotating shafts can be dangerous. Rotating shafts can snag clothes, skin, hair, hands, etc. causing serious injury or death. DO NOT work on or near a shaft “with or without a guard” when the engine is running.
Monaco Coach Corporation 91320 Coburg Industrial Way Coburg, OR 97408 800-634-0855 www.Monacocoach.com Warranty/Technical Support Toll Free 877-466-6226

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Bob Stone

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2015, 04:29:01 PM »
Bill, I would appreciate a copy of the service bulletin. Thank you.
   
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 07:51:52 PM by Roy Warren Co-Admin »
Bob Stone
'05 Monterey Laguna IV  Cat C-9

Bill Sprague

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2015, 06:14:21 PM »
Bill, I would appreciate a copy of the service bulletin. Thank you.
   

Done!  You might edit your post and delete your email address so nobody "borrows" it.

I've put it on DropBox so anyone can get it.  Try this link:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/60zaygi2i5lw03e/Monaco%20Drive%20Shaft.pdf?dl=0
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Jerry Emert

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2015, 08:49:40 PM »
Bill, I would appreciate a copy of the service bulletin. Thank you.
   

Done!  You might edit your post and delete your email address so nobody "borrows" it.

I've put it on DropBox so anyone can get it.  Try this link:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/60zaygi2i5lw03e/Monaco%20Drive%20Shaft.pdf?dl=0
Thank you for putting that in Drop Box Bill!  I think!!  Every-time I look there is more Maintenance to do. 
Jerry
Jerry, Chief USN Retired
2003 Patriot Thunder Lexington 40' 3 Slides
C-12 Ser#  2KS89983
4000MH

Joel Ashley

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2015, 11:39:58 PM »
Thanks Bill.  I just copied and pasted your post into WORD to print, but your link is virtually as good (with pix too  ;D).

-Joel
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 11:44:16 PM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Dave Atherton

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2015, 03:26:32 AM »
Gentleman, Roy Mueller maintance rally at his place in MO. after the Branson rally, started this
important step in maintance of motorhome ( correct grease of u-joints making sure grease is getting
into all bearing caps and slip joint.) Finding bolt missing on cap of u-joint and another bolt loose,
not being addressed is very good example of very big failure on the road and very high repair bill.
It is a very good feeling with club members to chime in with something that seems so simple that
many cases over looked , making everyone aware big problems ahead if u-joints, not greased
correct and taking extra time to make sure all bolts tight on bearing caps etc. Bill posting info.
from Monaco on greasing u-joint really opens up this subject. Thank You Bill
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Bill Sprague

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2015, 02:17:28 PM »
......... Thank You Bill
You are welcome Dave.  By the way, even though I never had a Cat and don't even own a Cummins anymore, I enjoyed meeting you at Branson.  A Triton V10 in that esteemed group of powerplants that gathered there put me in a tiny minority.  I wonder how many BAC members now rely on Ford!

One of my hobbies involved with Beaver ownership was collecting reference manuals in PDF.  In about 10 days, I'll be with good internet again and I'll upload my "library" to DropBox.  Much, but not all, has been put on the Beaver website with Tim Bentley's help.  But, now that I've traded motorcoach living for motorcabin traveling, owner's of rigs similar to our '04 Monterey may find my collection useful.   I'll soon be deleting it to make space on my computer.
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Joel Ashley

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2015, 10:14:25 PM »
Bill, I rely a lot on Ford.  From our old 8N tractor and Dad's '52 stationwagon to my '53 Customline first car, to my '97 F-150 and our '97 Explorer.  There was a '65 Olds Starfire convertible 429 thrown in there around 1970, and a '79 GMC 1 ton to tow my boat.  But not least was my candy apple red '70 Shelby GT500.  That was a bit before Tritons were invented.

Grin.

Hey, downsizing the coach should mean you can upsize the computer, shouldn't it?

-Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Russ Mann

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2015, 06:08:05 PM »
Just wanted to provide an update and thanks to those that responded.

Finally got the rear end up on blocks to check the drive shaft. Both "U" joints and mounting bolts are tight. There is rotational play of about 90 degrees on the transmission shaft and I can hear a "clunk", (metal to metal) when I rotate it.

Taking it to Smith Power Products in Sparks, Nevada on Tuesday for analysis. Will provide an update after.

Russ 

Joe Rhea

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2016, 08:22:39 PM »
was unable to get the article you posted
Thanks Joe Rhea

Jim Edwards

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Re: CAT C9, Allison or "U" Joint
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2016, 04:15:41 PM »
Hi Bill Or Joel. Can you attach the service bulletin to the reply It seems the dropbox link has expired. Thanks.
Jim Edwards
2005 Monterey Laguna III, 40 ft Cat C9
2007 Country Coach Affinity 45 ft Cummins 600
15 Grand Cherokee