Author Topic: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin  (Read 14974 times)

Mike Stuart

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Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« on: November 19, 2015, 12:22:55 AM »
I need new tires.  Tire size is 12R 22.5  My coach has Toyo M111z's which have been discontinued.  I have been told the replacement Toyo tire is the M170.  I have also been told that tire is NOT recommended for RV's. 
First question: Has anyone bought the M170 and what do you think about it?
I'm also considering the Michelin XVA3.
Second question: Has anyone bought the XVA3 and what do you think about it?

I have had difficulty getting directly to a source that outfits RV's with Toyo tires so much of the information has come thu feedback from tire distributors to shops who would mount and balance.

Any information provided will help me make this decision.  Thanks!

KC Snellgrove

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 01:38:00 AM »
Mike, I have just had this discussion with numerous members. Please go to the heading I noted below and read a plethora of advice from very knowledgeable Beaver owners!

It's time for new tires... before the trip South for Winter
« on: September 09, 2015, 04:13:55 AM

I know this will help.

KC Snellgrove
2005 Beaver Monterey "Olivia Jean" towing "Junior"

Joel Ashley

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 05:16:20 AM »
Mike, I just opted for Toyos over Michelins.  My tire size was different from yours, though.  The Les Schwab in Junction City, OR, (aka Bob Dickman Tire) has been doing motorhome tires for a very long time, since they were in the heart of Monaco, SMC, and Country Coach country.  They should be a good resource.

Apparently Toyo quit supporting their tires on motorhome's some time back because they were meant for trucks, not coaches, manufacturers were putting them on factory coaches, and they were wearing out.  They designed instead a new tire specifically for motor coaches.  In our case it is the M144.

You might run it by that Les Schwab and see what they say.

Joel
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Edward Buker

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 01:38:26 PM »
Mike,

For your 02 Marquis I think the size you want is 295/80R/22.5 and if Toyo the M144s are the best design fit for our application in their line. Your tire dealer should be able to help sort that out. Toyo did not make this size and support RV applications until releasing this tire in 2014 so the 12R /22.5 truck tire was the best fit. In their truck tire line the M144s are a bus tire with a heavy duty sidewall to endure curb scrubbing. The downside is they may ride a bit stiffer then a Michelin but on the upside it is probably a very robust sidewall design and construction. In application for earlier Beavers and Country Coaches the Toyo 12R versions were overloaded and Country Coach recalled them as I understand it. For the weights of my 2002 Marquis the Mi44s are not overloaded and I do not have to run at the max inflation allowed in any wheel position. Hope this helps.

Later Ed
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Vern Bauch

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 03:04:54 PM »
I had toyo tires put on the front when i bought my last 2002 pt
had older michelin on rear.  The toyo tires wore out in two years about 10000 miles
the michelins were still good to go

William Jordan

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 09:06:22 PM »
I had toyo tires put on the front when i bought my last 2002 pt
had older michelin on rear.  The toyo tires wore out in two years about 10000 miles
the michelins were still good to go

Wow ! I have almost 8000 miles on my M144 toyos in the last year and cant even tell they've worn at all ! something must be way out of alignment?  Truck tires should have a tread life of 100,000 miles or more. I'm really surprised!

Jerry Emert

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 11:46:42 PM »
Toyo doesn't seem to have my size listed (275-70r-22.5) on the web sites I've been able to find.  I never have understood what the variables in the tire size mean.  The tires on my coach do not seem to have much extra room under the fender.  What size would be comparable or just best to find the right size in something else?
Thanks
Jerry
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 11:54:38 PM »
The first number is the tread width in millimeters.  The second number is the sidewall height as a percentage of the tread width.  The third number is the diameter of the rim in inches that the tire is made to fit.  The letter "R" means the tire is a radial design.  For example, 295/80R22.5 means 295 mm tread width, 80% of 295 mm sidewall height, a radial designed tire, and it fits a 22.5 inch diameter rim.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 11:57:57 PM by David T. Richelderfer »
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Jerry Emert

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 12:12:01 AM »
The first number is the tread width in millimeters.  The second number is the sidewall height as a percentage of the tread width.  The third number is the diameter of the rim in inches that the tire is made to fit.  The letter "R" means the tire is a radial design.  For example, 295/80R22.5 means 295 mm tread width, 80% of 295 mm sidewall height, a radial designed tire, and it fits a 22.5 inch diameter rim.
David, so if I understand you, a 295/80 is going to be 44 mm sidewall height, times 2 for 88 mm or 3.46 inches higher overall?  Probably can't cram that under my PT.  Did I get that right.  I've seen the ratios as you posted before, just don't understand (instinctively) what that really means I guess. 
Thanks
Jerry
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 12:14:56 AM »
295/80R22.5:   295 mm is 11.6 inches tread width.  80% of 295 mm is 236 mm, or 9.3 inches, sidewall height.  There are 2.54 cm per inch, or 25.4 mm per inch.  The slash "/" expressed in the tire size (295/80R22.5) is not meant to be an arithmetic operator, i.e., to divide 295 by 80.  It would be more clear to think of the size as 295*0.80R22.5, I suppose.  But that's not how the size identification was devised.  Now... will someone please explain to me what 12r22.5 means (if that is the correct nomenclature)?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 12:56:26 AM by David T. Richelderfer »
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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 01:07:46 AM »
295/80R22.5:   295 mm is 11.6 inches tread width.  80% of 295 mm is 236 mm, or 9.3 inches, sidewall height.  There are 2.54 cm per inch, or 25.4 mm per inch.  The slash "/" expressed in the tire size (295/80R22.5) is not meant to be an arithmetic operator, i.e., to divide 295 by 80.  It would be more clear to think of the size as 295*0.80R22.5, I suppose.  But that's not how the size identification was devised.  Now... will someone please explain to me what 12r22.5 means (if that is the correct nomenclature)?
David, your numbers match what I figured.  I just added how much higher the 295's would be vice the 275's.  44mm higher sidewall X's 2 (bottom of tire sidewall height diff plus top of tire sidewall diff.) for total of 88mm or 3.46 inches.  I'm not a math wiz so I could be way off!  So why doesn't Toyo make the "right" size I wonder? (just another of those I wonder questions, no answer expected.)  Thanks for your help again!
Jerry
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 01:30:19 AM »
295mm - 275mm = 20mm.   20mm x 80% = 16mm.    16mm / 25.4 mm/inch = 0.63 inches per radius.  0.63 inches * 2 = 1.26 inches per diameter.  The difference in diameter between the 275 and 295 tires is 1.26 inches.  Therefore, the 295 tire will stand 1.26 inches taller than the 275 tire.  BUT, since your coach's axle will be 0.63 inches higher on the 295 versus the 275 tire, I would assume your coach's fender-well would sit that same amount higher as well.  Thus, the height-clearance difference between the 275 and 295 tires should be about 0.63 inches.  Does this make sense?

If my figures are correct, then I'd wager your coach would easily accept 295/80R22.5 tires all around.  And the load rating difference between 275 and 295 tires (295s have a higher load rating) would give your coach a higher safety rating.

Last Fall (2014) I put 315/80R22.5 tires on my coach's front end JUST BECAUSE it had no tolerance between the front-end weight when loaded versus the 295/80R22.5 tires' load rating.  Now my coach enjoys at least a 500 to 750 pound tolerance on each front tire.  The difference in height between the 295 and 315 is exactly the same as that difference between the 275 and 295, i.e., the 20 mm as we see above.  The 315s fit nicely with lots of clearance at a full left and right turn, and overhead in the fender-well.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 01:48:12 AM by David T. Richelderfer »
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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 03:14:22 AM »
295mm - 275mm = 20mm.   20mm x 80% = 16mm.    16mm / 25.4 mm/inch = 0.63 inches per radius.  0.63 inches * 2 = 1.26 inches per diameter.  The difference in diameter between the 275 and 295 tires is 1.26 inches.  Therefore, the 295 tire will stand 1.26 inches taller than the 275 tire.  BUT, since your coach's axle will be 0.63 inches higher on the 295 versus the 275 tire, I would assume your coach's fender-well would sit that same amount higher as well.  Thus, the height-clearance difference between the 275 and 295 tires should be about 0.63 inches.  Does this make sense?

If my figures are correct, then I'd wager your coach would easily accept 295/80R22.5 tires all around.  And the load rating difference between 275 and 295 tires (295s have a higher load rating) would give your coach a higher safety rating.

Last Fall (2014) I put 315/80R22.5 tires on my coach's front end JUST BECAUSE it had no tolerance between the front-end weight when loaded versus the 295/80R22.5 tires' load rating.  Now my coach enjoys at least a 500 to 750 pound tolerance on each front tire.  The difference in height between the 295 and 315 is exactly the same as that difference between the 275 and 295, i.e., the 20 mm as we see above.  The 315s fit nicely with lots of clearance at a full left and right turn, and overhead in the fender-well.

Told you I wasn't a math wiz!!  I'll try the 295's if I end up going with the Toyos.  Thanks again.
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Dick Simonis

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2015, 08:37:44 PM »
Jerry, I'd be a bit careful about going to the 295/80 size vs. your 275/70 tires.  When I had my 2000 PT I looked into that and was advised definitely not because the taller tires on the front would interfere with something (forget what) at full lock.  You might want to double check before leaping.

Regarding the 12R vs 195/80.  I have been looking at that since mine has the 12R Toyo that are getting near replacement time.  The 12R could also be expressed as 12R/100 as the section height is 100% of the section width vs. 80%.  That puts the 295/80 tire about 1" shorter and several hundred lbs less carrying capacity.  So, revs per mile go up and that probably affects the Cat ECM and Silverleaf data.

I see that Toyo does offer at least one tire...the M-170 in the 12R size but I haven't checked with others yet.  Still on my to-do list.
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Tires Toyo vs. Michelin
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2015, 11:42:27 PM »
Jerry - When I looked into placing the 315/80R22.5 tires on the front of my coach the dealer's two tire-men and I did some research.  The dealer already had some 315s mounted on rims identical to mine.  We lifted the coach and put those tires and rims on my coach's front end and dropped the coach back on the ground.  We put the coach's airbags to ride height and checked the tires' clearances overhead and full stop turned both left and right.  We then dumped all the air from the bags putting the coach as low as it would go and again checked the tires' clearances overhead and full stop turned both left and right.  We then put the coach up as high as it would go to full air bag height and again checked the tires' clearances overhead and full stop turned both left and right.  When we (read: I) was satisfied with the tires' clearances in all these positions I had the tire-men order the 315 tires for me.  We left the dealer's rims and tires on my coach when I drove it home to wait for the tires to arrive.  That gave me a chance to make them rub in a 15 mile round-trip between the dealer and my residence with the trip having several sharp corners and a few miles of 60 mph speeds.

You will need to do your homework before becoming confident larger tires will fit properly, and certainly before ordering larger tires.  Your dealer should put on a larger tire for you to check on clearances.

One other thing - in my discussion in the prior several posts I was calculating the relative sidewall height difference between 275 and 295 tires using the 80% factor for both.  The difference in sidewall heights will increase significantly when applying a 70% factor to your 275s.  275 * 70% / 25.4 = 7.6 inch sidewall height.  Compared that to 295 * 80% / 25.4 = 9.3 inch sidewall height.  That is a 1.7 inch difference in sidewall height, or (1.7 * 2) 3.4 inch overall tire height difference. This sounds to me like a lot of clearance to lose.  But who knows, after you do your research, then you might be surprised.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 05:02:11 PM by David T. Richelderfer »
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