Oh No! Jacks not retracking. What now?

[D. Wendal Attig]

We have the SMC leveling system on our 2002 Beaver Patriot Monticello. When we first picked up the RV and drove the 1100 miles home, the ride was smooth and enjoyable. Then we parked it inside a covered storage unit for the remainder of the winter and at some point tried to deploy the jacks. Since then, even when trying to retract them, the ride has been rough.

Yesterday following a weigh in, we stopped at a major RV repair facility, thinking our ride height adjustment may not be right. The tech doing the initial assessment said the ride height was fine, but looking underneath discovered the jacks we're close enough to the frame to be bottoming out regularly.

We really don't know if there is something we can do to further retract those, before we take it in for a Friday appointment.

 Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. 

P.S. Since we are novices at using the SMC system, perhaps we are missing something or just applying operator error. Thanks

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

D,
If one/all of the jacks are not fully retracted you should be getting an alarm when the ignition is on. Use the Manual Retract switch to fully retract them. If the "ALL UP" indicator is illuminated, the sensors on all 4 jacks are sensing they are fully retracted.
Try extending the jacks, then using manual or auto retract to see if they fully retract.
Here is the link to the SMC Leveling System manual in case you don't have one.  https://www.google.com/search?q=smc+leveling+system&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Steve

[Edward Buker]

D,

There are four push button switches, one per jack, that are depressed by the foot on the hydraulic jack, when in the full retract position. They are wired in series and the "all up light" or "retracted" indicator tells you that the switch buttons are depressed by the hydraulic jack foot. If the button switches are fully operable then they are a reliable indicator.

If the retract light is on and the tech is saying that the jacks are not up then you have switches, due to rust or dirt, that are stuck in the up position. I exercise mine with a small piece of wood in the spring to be sure they are free. I have also replaced several that tended to stick. If the switches will not work they need to be replaced. If the switches are not working you should visual the jacks to be sure they are fully up before traveling. As always take care not to be under the motorhome without safety blocking if at all possible.

Later Ed

[Jerry Emert]

D,

There are four push button switches, one per jack, that are depressed by the foot on the hydraulic jack, when in the full retract position. They are wired in series and the "all up light" or "retracted" indicator tells you that the switch buttons are depressed by the hydraulic jack foot. If the button switches are fully operable then they are a reliable indicator.

If the retract light is on and the tech is saying that the jacks are not up then you have switches, due to rust or dirt, that are stuck in the up position. I exercise mine with a small piece of wood in the spring to be sure they are free. I have also replaced several that tended to stick. If the switches will not work they need to be replaced. If the switches are not working you should visual the jacks to be sure they are fully up before traveling. As always take care not to be under the motorhome without safety blocking if at all possible.

Later Ed

Ed, sorry just a short side trip!  Where do you get those switches and do they have a common name that I can ask for?  3 out of 4 of mine are bad.  I'm probably capable of changing them!!  Maybe?
Thanks
Jerry

[Edward Buker]

Jerry,

I believe this is the replacement that I used. The new ones had a rubber boot that helps with the dirt and corrosion. This type was used in the Beaver design system that has the hydraulic jacks press on the axles to level.
 
http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cole-hersee-90043-07/switch-push-button-momentary-off-p-v30-9004307

I use an ohm meter to to see when the switch closes contacts against the Jack foot while in the full up position.  I set the stop nuts to lock it in place. Basically you want to roughly center the adjustment between the contacts closed point and the switch button being bottoming out by the foot of the jack. This is not critical just a rough centering so as to not damage the rubber boot and still assure activation.

I use heat shrink crimp connectors and tie off the wires with wire ties. I did the fronts on mine while in the wheel wells with the wheel turned. Just enough room to get in there. The backs have remained operational. Not sure if the backs can be done without pulling the wheels. As always be safe with proper blocking.

Later Ed

[D. Wendal Attig]

Thanks for the tips. We moved the coach from one lot to another in the same RV Park today, and followed the procedures in the manual (which we didn't have already in the paperwork arsenal on board.---thanks for the link)

With SMC power on, I hit the auto button and
1) The lights cycled through until the coach showed level.
 
2) We could hear some sounds we presumed to be the jacks making minor adjustments. (This is the first time we have seen the SMC Green level light on.)

3) The coach seems to be more level and stable in the parked position. We'll see in the morning if we have a renewed list to the port side (which is where both slideouts are located)

What we don't know is whether the jacks will actually retract when the time comes. Guess I am hesitant to play with it, although I want to be sure this is working right before we hit the road in about 3 weeks as it looks now.

The pdf manual seems to indicate that the SMC power should remain on until it is time to retract the jacks, but I wonder whether this serves any real purpose. Your thoughts?

Would you recommend that I test the manual retract at this point? If so, will I need to start and run the coach to create the air/hydraulic pressure necessary to activate the retract sequence.

Thanks,
D.

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

D,
Leaving the System Power on allows you to use the Auto Retract feature. If system power is turned off you will need to use the manual retract. Leaving System Power on also enables the automatic leveling check. The system will check level every hour or so and adjust the level if needed. So, IMHO best to leave system power on.
If it were me I'd try retracting to see if you really have a problem. If system power has been left on, use auto retract. Otherwise use manual retract. If / once you get the All Up indicator, visually verify the jacks are all the way up. If so, good, then re-level and relax. If not, figure out next steps. From your initial post it sounds like a jack may not have been all the way up. If all up now, once you start driving, it may pay to stop and check the jack positions once or twice first day or if ride becomes rough.
Steve

[Keith Moffett]

D
Just my view but if you have been experiencing a rough ride it is likely that your jacks  have  been hitting the frame. 
At this point it would be concerning about bent jack shafts.  Have you had any really jarring impacts while driving?
The "all up light" is a little yellow light  all the way to the back and by the seat.  I turn the power off most times because the auto adjusting function doesnt seem to work.  I push and hold the manual side of the rocker switch until the all up light comes on.

[Edward Buker]

D,

There are some variations in how folks use this SMC system. I will tell you what I have evolved to and why and you can decide if this is what works well for you.

The auto level sequence designed into the system works well and activating that is what I do. It starts with an air dump, the one built into the controller is not long enough to fully drain the air springs so that alters if you end up level. Start the leveling process by holding down the air dump switch (engine off) until there is maybe 5lbs of air showing on the dash air gauge on the needle that dropped pressure. Then enable the auto level and let it do its thing, now in a calibrated way, given the air supply is depleted. I then turn my controller off (Steve's point that if you turn it off you then need to use manual retract only. The controller I think is not smart enough to know what it was doing when it was powered down). If you sense any unlevel condition later on, once leveled using the hydraulics, check the dash air needles and if the one that dropped with the air dump has risen hold down the air dump again to deplete it. This will lower the coach back onto the hydraulic jacks if air bleeding from one tank to the other has caused it to rise.

This hydraulic system is a very rigid system, being steel hydraulic jacks to the steel axles. The gentlest method of retract is to start the engine and air up the air springs. The air leveling system valves that are in a position to add air will allow air to flow and those air springs will fill and lift the coach and the hydraulic jacks off the axles (floating on air so to speak). The remainder may not where the coach is held high by the hydraulic leveling jacks. At this point I bump the manual retract button on and off, dropping the hydraulic jacks that are under tension holding the coach up, in small increments. I keep an eye on the air gauge on the dash, watching for the point where the air needle starts to drop, indicating that air is now flowing into the additional air springs. I pause until those air springs fill supporting the coach and when you have all the air suspension springs supporting the coach you can then hold down the manual retract until the all up indicator led is on.

I have the engine idling while doing the retract procedure to supply air to the leveling system. While this seems a little tedious, it is the best way I have found to make the hand off between the hydraulic system and the air leveling system without "dropping" the coach in a rough fashion using just the hydraulics only. I think this procedure makes sense but was not something that could be built into a controller given these two systems (air and hydraulic leveling) are not integrated in any way. Hope this helps.

Later Ed

[D. Wendal Attig]

On "Dumping" the air pressure: With the engine off, I first tried dumping the air. Since there is no designated dump switch on my SMS panel, I tried the one marked, "Air Dump" on the dash located between the headlight switch and the fan  switch--both just left of the Air Pressure gauge which was reading about 120 psi. Nothing happened even after several minutes of hold this spring loaded switch in.

Next I turned on the SMS power and hit the auto switch. It did the round robin thing, then settled on the blinking green level indicator. Now, 20 minutes later, the orange front led is blinking. I'll try leaving the power on this time to see if it self levels again. 

I may have missed a procedural step while looking for the right button or light. Will look underneath tomorrow.

[Edward Buker]

D,

What should happen when you hit the air dump, the coach should start to lower, you should hear air escape like draining a compressor, and one of the needles should fall while one retains some air in the tank. Try it with ignition on and see if it works then. If not then you may have a bad air solenoid or a wiring issue. Does the needle fall and air dump as part of the leveling sequence? It uses the same solenoid valve I believe, which would imply a wiring or switch issue. The air dump switch is not on the SMC panel, it is somewhere in the side panel or dash panel like you found.

Later Ed

[D. Wendal Attig]

Ed,

I am only able to get the air dump switch to work when the engine is on. So, if I have your recommended sequence down, (with modifications due to my system) here are the steps I have tried:

Fire up the engine and wait for the air pressure in the system to build and inflate the airbags as completely as they will.

Activate the air dump switch (which depletes the air only to about the 30 lb pressure level)

Note: at this point, the driver's side front is low (indicating to me that the air bags are deflated and the jack is not in place to maintain front left of the coach.)

I then begin to bump the manual retract button.  Rear jacks make noise corresponding to my bumps. And the right front shifts position noticeably and "verbally", but I cannot discern if it is going down or up, since the left front airbags are deflated and the jack is apparently retracted, so the list is rather dramatic on the front left corner.

After the repeated movement on the right front from my bumps, I have held the manual retract button continually in place for several minutes, never seeing the all up LED.

I turn the SMC panel off. let the system air rebuild to 120 psi, then the air bags seem to properly inflate and somewhat level the coach.

Questions:
How long should I expect to hold down the manual retract button without seeing the all up LED?

Why can't I dump the air below 30 psi and without the engine running?

If I can't figure this out by Wednesday morning, I have an appointment with a local shop to see if they can figure it out, but I'm still trying to do what I can (with your help) to do a work around and avoid the expense at the moment. Thanks.

 

[Edward Buker]

Not completely sure what is going on here..... two minutes is too long for continually holding down the manual retract and not have he light come on. I would try an extendable mechanics mirror and a flashlight to try and determine if the jacks are up. Safety is a concern which is why a mirror may be necessary. There are four switches,one per jack, that need to be free and range adjusted properly so they are activated by the jack foot.

For retracting...If you are retracting the jacks manually by bumping the manual retract, I do that with the engine running to supply air to fill the suspension while watching the air needles. I will pause from bumping the manual retract if I see the air pressure start to fall which is signalling that the hydraulic jack retract has reached the point where some of the air springs are filling because the coach has lowered enough to activate the fill valves. After pausing and letting the activated air springs fill, you want to then bump the retract continuing the process of watching the gauge and pausing if the air is dropping again until all air springs are full and the coach is resting on all the air springs. Then you want to continue the retract, no need to bump the switch anymore, just hold it down to get all the SMC hydraulic jacks in the full up position. (assumption is the light works, if not confirm with a mirror checking periodically after bumping the retract button)

For leveling, you want to be able to shut the engine off, and with the key on if need be, see if you can activate the manual air dump and fully deplete the air tanks and suspension to just a few pounds. One needle may stop at some value where a check valve for safety reasons holds air, that is fine. If you cannot deplete the air in the system manually then that is the place to start and see why the air dump solenoid and wiring is not working. This process should be allowing the air in all of the air springs to be depleted and the coach to settle in the full down position with the engine off and the ignition on. That is how it is supposed to work. Once you have depleted the air you can start the auto level hydraulic leveling process. I then turn off the controller when that is done.

There are times when the air needle that was depleted have crept back up a bit after some hours which will affect leveling and I will turn on the ignition and hit the air dump again to deplete it. That is reserve air that was left in one of the tanks slowly bleeding into the depleted tank over some hours.

Later Ed

[D. Wendal Attig]

After bumping and dumping through various configurations, when the jacks finally seemed to have moved into a quasi-level position, I shut the power off at the SMC panel. Yesterday, just before taking the coach in to have them worked on (among other things) I started the coach and held down the retract side of the power button. Amazingly, all of the jacks retracted and the ride was smooth.

I do sense that the ride height adjustment could be higher, but there is no longer an active issue with the jacks. Is that an easy adjustment to make and will it affect both front and back?

Thanks,
D.

[Gerald Farris]

D,
Adjusting the ride height is a quick and easy adjustment, and yes if done right, it will affect the front and rear if any adjustments are made. If one rear sensor is adjusted to raise that rear corner of the coach, the opposite front corner will be lowered. Your coach has three ride height sensors, and when making an adjustment to one, you should check all three.

Gerald