Cat 3208T 1987 Marquis Gilig Chassis Overheat Issue and Questions

[Ira Kozak]

Has anyone overheated a 3208T ?

Head Gaskets or new engine?

Building pressure in coolant causing it to overheat.

I bought my coach last year.

I have had problems throwing belts. Fixed a bearing on hydraulic pump. a few months ago wife and I took a trip.

The coach overheated on a hill and we shut it down at about 250 degrees, then watched the temp climb to 300. OUCH!

the shop in Fredrick Md Grimm's Automovation said they would replace the Head Gaskets, Freeze plugs and sensors.
(Grimm's was recommended by Good Sams)

They called me and said come and get it!

When I got there I paid the bill $2,500.00 and noticed that the lite was still on. I asked about that and the mechanic wanted to disconnect the wire,  I said no I want the lights to work and the gauge.
 
So they went and Got a sensor,when installing it they lost fluid I said lets top it off. The mechanic said It was over full. I said are you sure I have a long way to go.
He never burped the lines.

Bell on the way out the lines burped and I started to over heat.

I pulled over got coolant waited and added it.

I got home okay.

a month later I notice coolant is leaking and short so I add it. 

Now its building pressure and blowing it out the cap.

My local shop who comes very highly recommended says don't just do the heads I will hate him forever. A rebuilt engine complete is 13K plus installation about $20K total.

Is there any way to check to see if the cylinders are scored and maybe save the some money or is it a crap shoot?

Any information would be helpful, Thanks for your time. Ira and Shari
 

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Ira,
I'm far from a diesel expert but it would seem considering the compression ratios in a diesel that scored cylinders would allow a bit of fuel by, resulting in smoking out the exhaust. It can also cause oil usage. You might try pulling the oil dipstick when running and see if you get smoke coming out, indicating blow-by.
Steve

[Gerald Farris]

Ira,
There is no easy answer to your questions. First, the Gillig chassis 3208 Caterpillar belt system in your Beaver requires a matched set of belts for the main pair, and if you are using unmatched individual belts, belt failure is almost guaranteed.

Second, if you are getting compression leakage into the coolant, you have either a bad head gasket or a cracked head. So where to go from here is like you said "a crap shot", but you can make it an educated one. If the shop that just installed you head gaskets will not stand behind their work, you can have the heads removed and check the cylinder walls for damage by turning the engine crankshaft to make the cylinder walls visible for all cylinders. Although you can check the cylinder walls in this fashion, you could possibly have a scored piston skirt, but it is unlikely if the cylinder walls are good.

While it sounds like the first shop that you used is less than competent, I would not place a lot of faith in the second shop either if they just want to replace the engine in your coach without finding out what is wrong with it. A diesel engine is normally much more economical to repair than replace unless there is a major failure like it threw a rod. Any shop that wants you to spend $20,000 on a repair should be able to give you evidence of why it is necessary, and not just say that you will hate them if you don't.

However, I am writing this from a position of never having seen you coach, and my position is a generalization that may or my not apply to your coach. 

Gerald   

[Doug Allman]

Ira, Steve and Gerald have good points but we have a 42 year retired CAT mechanic as a BAC member and I would think you may want to consider getting a hold of him, Dave Atherton, as I am sure he will have some input on your situation. If you need his email or his telephone number email me and I will send to you. He is in the membership directory also.

Dave has helped many other BAC members and I am sure he can get you the correct diagnosis and then the least expensive fix as he has for others due to his extreme knowledge of all the CAT diesels. The best part is he does not charge for his expertise so use it well.

I had a 1991 Contessa which is on the Gillig chassis although with a 3116 CAT. Just from what I can see yours looks like it is in extremely good shape. Are you sure it is a 1987? It looks an awful lot like our 1991 or somewhere very close to that year. We also just looked at a 1987 in Yuma AZ in late September and it was a way different style than yours.

I also just sent your info to a friend that may want a Beaver in yours shape and condition.

[Dave Atherton]

Ira, with heating problem and new head gaskets, must have been for both banks. What it sounds
like cracked head from valve to injector which is very common with the Cat 3208 T engine, or
Being both heads were removed, possible incorrect torque of head bolts. The Cat 3208 T is not a sleeved engine and does not have a fire ring for each cylinder. The torque of head has to be retorqued
after 10 hours of running. This was a Cat standard back in earlier days for head gasket replacement.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Dick and Izzy Ellis]

Ira, can you please let me know what you find wrong. I have a 1991 Contessa with a 3208T. I have not had any major problems with it but it was overheated before I got it. The shop that repaired it said there was no damage but it sure smokes when you start it but not once it has ran for 5 minutes. A shot of either does decrease the smoke but does not eliminate it. As far as you engine damage the cylinders can be checked when the heads are of and can you not have the heads magniflexed to check them out. Good luck.
Dick Ellis

[Dave Atherton]

IRa, will get back with you with detailed breakout on your Cat3208 engine. You are not
at stage where you need engine. Where are you located?  Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Dick and Izzy Ellis]

Hi Dave
I am located about 1 hour south of Calgary Alberta. I am guessing that I will need to do the valve seals. I also will have to look at injectors because the motor runs real ruff when you first try to rev it up. I think that there is a injector leak but can't ever see it happen, just see where it has sprayed into the side of the motor. As far as the engine overheating the dealer that it was towed to said there was no fillings in the oil and they took the filter apart and also found nothing. The reason for the overheating was a turbo line blew.
Keeping my fingers crossed it is good.
Dick Ellis

[Dave Atherton]

Ira, that sounds a lot better, basic poor workmanship. With the injector leaking and spraying to
outside of Motorhome there is a coupling between valve cover inside and to outside that is loose
that requires valve cover to be off and one 3/4 openend wrench holding hex on fuel line inside
and 3/4 openend wrench to outside hex on fuel line. Valve cover is easy to remove. I would suggest
In replacement of all your injectors if your exhaust has a white blue color at idle and running.
If the injector is still leaking after tighten hex on fuel line, than that leaves only one thing left
is a copper washer that slides over the injector that seals combustion in each cylinder that Mechanic
Failed to it back. One to remember with your engine that does not have much compression when
built and used pencil tape injectors. The injectors nozzle tip will carbron up if let engine idle for
long time along with exhaust valves. Regardless of what anyone tells you your 3208 engine is
very good engine and used very heavy in mid size trucks, earthmoving equipment and farm tractors.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Dave Atherton]

Dick and Izzy Ellis, been following Ira post on the Cat 3208. The engine has and still is
a very good engine and very low cost to maintain. What can be the worse case ahead,
Set of  pencil type injectors, reman Cat heads from Cat, water pump and thermostats.
Looking at around 10-12 hours labor. The time to completely  go through engine around
22-25 hours. But you will find injectors, head, water pump and thermostats as mentioned
above will do. Again this engine is not a power house but does it job at very low cost
and is very easy to work on without any special tools. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Ira Kozak]

Update on my Coach,

I took Dave's advice and ended up finding a shop that would work on the 3208T engine.

Patten located in Elmhurst Illinois.

They are tearing down the heads and will rebuild them. Possibly using used and reworked heads if needed. Cat no longer supports the heads themselves. They do support the gasket kits and hardware.   

They will also inspect the lower bearings when they change the oil and pan gasket.

I'm feeling much better about this repair.

I'll update soon.  Ira

P.S. the injector problem was not mine.  I hope you got that worked out.

[Doug Allman]

Ira, Keep Dave posted as you go along with repairs. Very Happy to see you feeling better. There are some very knowledgeable individuals in the BAC that will help at the drop of the hat.
We were told when asking what it was like when you go to a rally as we did not know anyone. "Open your engine compartment cover and within 5 minutes you will have 5-7 guys standing there to help with your problems" She was exactly correct. Your friends list just began and it just keeps on getting better.