Large water spot forming in Ceiling

[Mike Groves]

All,

Yesterday a large water spot formed with a center point being in the kitchen ceiling 5th light (from rear 1st light from front of kitchen ceiling light array).  This corresponds roughly to the driver side and almost the front of the solar panels.  I realize the solar panels are attached with leading and trailing end brackets, but there are electronics beneath those panels, right?  And those electronics then go into the roof?

Has anyone experienced leaking in this area?  What did you do?

Mike

[Karl Welhart]

Mike,

Had the same problem with my 2002 Patriot.  The hole for the wires from the solar panels was leaking and resealing that spot can only be accomplished by removing the panels.  I removed both panels filled the hole and resealed the entire roof.  The roof material under the solar panel was very soft and very near the end of its useful life....

Karl

[Mike Groves]

That certainly could be the issue.

Thanks!

Mike

[Keith Moffett]

Mike
Roof leaks are tough because the leak can creep between roof layers and show up almost anywhere.  This also sounds like a leaking roof air gasket.
Best of luck

[Mike Groves]

To try to pin it down AND to attempt to minimize the leak as we wait for dryer weather and a shop appointment, we've spread a 9x12 tarp over the solar panel extended about a foot before (touching the sat dish install) and a foot toward the rear.  it covers side to side.

I think we can agree that if the water ingress stops that we've isolated the area of concern and the solar panel is the only area other than roof space.

Time will tell.

Mike

[Joel Ashley]

Ours developed a "pinhole" leak that inundated the galley floor in 2015 during an Oregon Fall gulleywasher (galleywasher?). 

My power washing the roof apparently pulled the solar wire bundle slightly away from its dicor seal to the roof, but underneath and not visible.  Together with a low spot in the roof right there creating a "lake", water just poured in.  It took me some looking to find the culprit because the wires laid down over the torn sealant.  When I raised them, the hole was significant enough when the lake covered it, that the water easily flowed in atop the ceiling, then out via the nearest portals, like AC vents and light fixtures.

I'm bummed that such a low spot should occur in a relatively young and low-mileage coach, has probably been there awhile, and is not easily repaired.  It's only really noticeable when the coach is parked level and it's raining hard, and you just happen to be on the roof or some adjacent elavated position... pretty rare. 

I did an emergency repair by stuffing the hole and immediate area with Lexel, and BCS shortly later redid the dicor seal during a service visit for other things.

Joel

[Mike Groves]

Joel,

So far the tarp has worked and we don't appear to have any more water coming in.  Keeping fingers crossed that the wind does pick up.

How do you go about getting the dicor seal beneath the solar panels?  I see 4 screws at each end of the dual panel set that I have.  I think the wiring going into the coach is beneath the front left quadrant of the panels but there is no clearance without removing the panels.

I have an appointment for Tuesday but also have 3 sunny days coming beginning on Thursday so I thought I would give this a shot.  Nearly as I can tell 8 screws and the panels will move depending on how they are attached to the wiring.  Then if I can get them far enough out of the way I can find and seal the intrusion.

Thoughts anyone?

Mike

[Joel Ashley]

It would seem our solar installations are quite different, in that your wires route down under the panel(s) and our wires go through alongside our panels.  Your access may entail dismounting at least one side of each panel from their brackets, so you can perhaps swivel them up out of the way enough to get at things.  But I'm not familiar with your specific mounting, so it's only an uninformed idea.

Joel

[Edward Buker]

Mike,

I never had a leak at the panels so I do not know exactly where the wires exit the roof and how much access you would have from the panel edges. If the wire was reasonably close to the panel edges you could borrow or rent one of the flexible shaft illuminated mechanic mini camera viewers. You may be able to get some insight into where the leak is before hand by using something like this.

http://www.cpooutlets.com/milwaukee-2313-21-m12-12v-cordless-lithium-ion-m-spector-360-rotating-digital-inspection-camera-with-3-ft--cable/miln2313-21,default,pd.html#xsell=miln2313-21--2

If the roof wire pass through was say within 6 inches of the edge of the panel, and reachable, I would consider rigging a rigid plastic, brass, or copper small ID tube and couple that to the end of a Dicor lap sealant cartridge using some appropriate diameter rubber tubing slipped over the tubing and the cartridge end. Your trying to create an extension of the cartridge tip that can be coupled and used. Then use some mini screw clamps to keep it together. Basically you are making an extended dispenser.

The good thing about the Dicor Lap Sealant is that it flows some, so if you can get it to the site and dispense it liberally around and above the wire roof location in a decent mound there is an excellent chance it would seal the leak where it enters the roof.

This is one of those ideas where you have to inspect things and see if this is even a possibility. If this approach has a good likelihood of success, based on what you find, then you could give it a try. Certainly if it was easy to remove the panels, expose and clean and seal things, that would be preferred.

One caution is that if it is not warm enough out, the Dicor may not flow well enough. You could keep the Dicor in the coach and carefully heat the tube with a hair dryer/heat gun just before using it if need be. Not sure if this idea has any merit for your situation but I put it out there just in case....

Later Ed

[Mike Groves]

Ed,

The local repair shop sold me a small can of "Alkyd Fiber Sealant" which I applied to the roof after removing some old wiring hold downs that screwed in.  I though perhaps those were points of compromise.  This stuff seems to work well but doesn't "settle" like Dicor.  At any rate, those points didn't make a difference, so we got the tarp.

This morning no leaking and things are drying on the ceiling even though we've had a lot of rain overnight.  My conclusion is that the ingress MUST BE somewhere beneath the 9x12 tarp and since the only covered area is the 2 panel solar (about 5x5ft I guess) array, either the ingress is via the 4 screws on each side of that installation, or the problem lies beneath - no wires are observable around these panels. 

I suppose I could try removing the sealant on either end then reseal and HOPE that fixes the issue, or just go for bust and remove the panels so that I can examine beneath them.

No time to order cameras.  Tomorrow is supposed to be dry and perhaps dry for another couple days after that.

A local mobile rv guy who installed the Sat dish and recently fixed my slide awning (which had come undone on one side bolts and all), might be experienced at doing this job.  In the meantime I still have the appointment on Tuesday with the place that sold the Alkyd Fiber seal to me.

The wind has remained relatively calm so for now we're dry.

Thanks for the insights provided.

Mike

[Mike Groves]

Just to provide a conclusion to what was found beneath the solar panels.

A local Mobile RV company in Newport, Oregon - Advanced Mobile Tech Services LLC, whose owner/operator is Chad - came out yesterday.

He undid the 4 fasteners on the front edge of my 2 panel solar array and was able to lift the panels out of the way to discover the leak point without having to unfasten the rear end.

Chad showed me pictures of the wire through the roof portion of the original solar panel install.  A pretty large hole through which the wire(s) were run into the coach.  It had been sealed originally with some sort of compound which failed (after 18-19 years) and produced a pretty good sized water ingress point.  Chad remove the old sealing, and replaced it with a conical shape seal of Marine Silicon.  The electronic box for the solar panels was located immediately above this hole in the roof so when he replaced the panels the box would have flattened his cone a bit because it rested on top of his seal.

Chad took some pictures which I've requested and I'll post when I get them (with help probably from a moderator here).

Bottom line, originally the leak appeared first in the kitchen area and when I looked at its apparent origin point and got outside it was pretty clear that the radius point was at about the leading edge of the solar array.  And placing the tarp only over the solar array confirmed where the leak was coming from.

I hope this helps another owner of this vintage coach who all of a sudden experiences water on the ceiling in the kitchen area.

Mike

[Edward Buker]

Mike,

If you had not caught this tip on the forum in the past, Folex cleaner in a spray bottle does a good job removing the water stains. May take two applications. I picked my bottle of Folex up at Home Depot or Lowes.

Later Ed

[Mike Groves]

Margaret has been doing that sort of thing and yes she does use Folex.

I am wondering about the best way to dry out the ceiling cavity.  I've left 3 lights down and air can get it.  Not very efficient.

Mike

[Edward Buker]

Mike,

It is a good idea to get the area to dry if possible. A blower with a hose of some kind would help if those ceiling light holes are connected with an air path. You will need the air flow to pass through the damp area so pulling the right lights creates the air path.

Heat guns typically have a cool position where the element is not on and they move a good amount of air. They are not too expensive and True Value hardware has them. This one has a round air outlet, would need to check that it offers a cool setting. A vacuum cleaner hose and some electrical tape connecting the heat gun to the hose would likely work.

http://www.truevalue.com/product/Hand-Power-Tools/Power-Tools/Heat-Guns/Furno-300-Dual-Temp-Heat-Gun/pc/5/c/74/sc/1717/8669.uts

You would need to sort out if your vacuum hose adaptation can be fixed to the light opening somehow.

If you get that far, the caution is to check with a flashlight a light opening where the air exits from the ceiling cavity, that fiberglass fibers are not continually (expect some when you first start the blower)  being carried airborne back into the coach. If that was the case I would opt to just let it dry on its own over time.

This is imagined and not a working model.........may the force be with you.

Later Ed