Author Topic: How much inverter use is too much?  (Read 7593 times)

Jim Chambers

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How much inverter use is too much?
« on: October 14, 2010, 03:53:57 PM »
Still learning about using our coach (new to us in April). We have yet to "dry camp", always staying in full service parks. However, we often stop for a mid-day meal when traveling and use the microwave. We usually use the generator for power and yesterday also used roof air while parked in 90 degrees plus in Corning CA. We have only once used the inverter for about 3 minutes to power the microwave and have been timid about its use, having no idea how long the batteries will last when drawing inverter power. How much can the inverter be used without draining the house batteries? I suspect the answer depends on what equipment is being used, but how about some generalities?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 02:29:50 AM by 14 »

Bill Sprague

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Re: How much inverter use is too much?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 07:48:23 PM »
You can't use the inverter too much.  But, you might be able to use your batteries too much.  And you can overwork your alternator.  So, your question is a little bit of a challenge to answer.  And, I can only write about the only coach I know and will assume some of it applies to yours.  Of course, opinions will always vary!

My inverter has a setup controller.  Of its many functions it allows you to tell the inverter when to consider the batteries "dead".  At that point either the generator can be set to start or the inverter will quit making 120.  The idea with this is that it will prevent any accidental, excessive and damaging discharge to the batteries.  I've programmed mine to assume that a 50% discharge is to be treated as "dead" and the genset will start. So, my first suggestion is that you figure out how to set your inverter to quit when you want it to so that you will get long battery life.  

Next, consider how you are going to recharge the batteries.  My Beaver is amazing in that it can automatically recharge the batteries from any of three sources and it does it automatically.  Best is shore power, second best is the Onan and worst is having the engine alternator do it.  I think it should be considered a design flaw that allows the small engine alternator to automatically and routinely run at full output for long periods of time!  

So, my second suggestion is to never let the engine alternator recharge the house batteries more than just a little bit.  That's because it is tiny compared to the Onan or shore power.  It does work its heart out trying and get very hot doing it.  Getting hot won't be noticed since you are in the other end of the coach driving, but hot means early failure.  Then you will notice it because our alternators are a little unique, sometimes hard to find, expensive and not easy to change.

Another way to put it is that the engine alternator is designed to replace a few amps briefly used from the engine batteries to start the engine and then supply the various needs of driving, like headlights, etc.  It is very good at that, but if you ask it to additionally charge four or six half dead deep cycle house batteries you are asking too much!

I think the best practice is to dry camp and use the inverter all you want until the batteries drop to about 50%.  Then recharge them with the Onan until the batteries are back to about 95%.  If you are about to drive and the house batteries have been used even a little bit, I think you should start the Onan before starting the engine.  Leave the Onan running until you think the house batteries are fairly well charged.  On my coach, the Aladdin monitor will tell me when to shut of the genset.  

Related to this is that the more you use your Onan the longer it will last.  It needs to run to keep the windings dry, the parts lubricated and the brushes polished.  Using it to charge batteries through the inverter is a good opportunity to “exercise” it.

Jerry Carr

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Re: How much inverter use is too much?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 04:24:41 PM »
Wow Bill that was very good information, I need to check my system for it's set up!
Regards,
Jerry Carr
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Gerald Farris

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Re: How much inverter use is too much?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 05:30:41 PM »
Assuming that your coach still has the original Prosine inverter, you do not have the luxury of an auto-gen start or adjustable cutoff voltage settings. There is no problem in running the inverter all that you need as long as you do not run the house batteries down too much. I use 12V in the house batteries as a time to start the generator to recharge them. I run the inverter from 4 to 8 hours a day when I am dry camped, between computer time an watching TV in the evening, and that requires 1 to 2 hours of generator time.

The comment that Bill made about not starting the coach with discharged house batteries is correct. Start your Onan and run it until it is only charging about 50 amps or so before cutting it off to drive or run it for about a hour or so as you drive in the morning to prevent over working your engine alternator. Your engine alternator is rated at 160 amps, but it will not last very long if you run it a it's maximum output.

I would start the generator to run the microwave instead of using the inverter, because it takes so much current to run the microwave that it is hard on your batteries and will run them down very fast, but you can watch TV for 3 or 4 hours before needing to recharge the batteries.

The house batteries will last for years if you take care of them (I got 7 years out of my original house batteries). If you completely discharge them to about 10.6V their life expectancy as measured in charge cycles will be reduced by a large percentage. The best maintenance practice is to add distilled water to the proper level about once a month and never discharge the batteries below 12V on the inverter panel. You will probably be able to water the batteries a little less often as you get use to their water usage, but never let the plates get dry.

Gerald

Jay and Raylene Todd

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Re: How much inverter use is too much?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2010, 06:49:22 PM »
Gerald,

I'm not quite sure what you meant by "Assuming that your coach still has the original Prosine inverter". My coach has the original Prosine inverter installed and it does have the auto start ability as well as the cutoff voltage settings. Were you refering specifically to the inverter installed in the OP's coach?

Gerald Farris

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Re: How much inverter use is too much?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 07:07:46 PM »
I could be wrong, but I do not think that those options were available on the 2001 Patriot.

Gerald  
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 09:23:15 PM by 235 »

Jim Chambers

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Re: How much inverter use is too much?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 07:18:37 PM »
Gerald, do I read house battery voltage on the Prosine panel in the coach next to the large info panel?
Where do I look to see the amp output for the generatator?

I recently allowed my house batteries to run down while the coach was idle for a couple of months. Could have left it connected to shore power but didn't. Created all sorts of mischief. First, after connecting to shore power to recharge, the battery off gassing set off the LP alarm (coach in an enclosed garage). Took a bit research to figure out the cause. Then we took a trip last week and I awoke one cold morning to find the diesel hydro-hot switch indicator light would not light. Again, some research told me that low batteries require a reset on the hydro-hot board in the bay. Lesson: Don't let batteries discharge.

Gerald Farris

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Re: How much inverter use is too much?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 09:14:41 PM »
Jim,
You can read battery voltage and charging/discharging amperage on the inverter control panel or on the CMP (Coach Monitor Panel) that is in the cabinet above the kitchen table on most of the 2001 Patriots. You can also read that information on the Silverleaf.

Gerald