Author Topic: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel  (Read 3909 times)

Darrell Terry

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Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« on: June 06, 2017, 01:01:00 AM »
What's the best fuel for my 2004 Cummins 350 Turbo ISC

I assume Diesel #2 is best but what do I choose when I can't find it.

 I expect that the lower the Bio-Diesel the better, B-2, B-5, B-10    Is B-15/20 safe to use ?

 Is Bio-Diesel better than Low Sulphur ?

Beginning a trip tomorrow through OR,WA,ID,MT,WY and finding Diesel #2 is not at all easy anymore.

Darrell
2004 Monterey
350 Cummins ISC

Joel Ashley

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 01:16:20 AM »
I think all highway diesel is low Sulphur #2.  Your main concern is the Bio percentage.  20% is concerning to many members here, myself included.  Much has been discussed about it, and I won't endeavor to go there again.  You can do a Search of the Forum if you want to. 

As I recall, Oregon has stuck at the 5% Bio mandate, and that's what I've been seeing here.  I think there is at least one station in Portland that's at 10%, perhaps city-mandated.  Other states may be regulated higher by now, and some municipalities may be locally regulating Bio content.  There was a lot of flux there for awhile, so perhaps things have stabilized so we know what to expect as we travel.  The last we were in Idaho and Washington I didn't run into anything over 5%.  Every Pacific Pride facility I've used has been 5% for a few years, but that's dictated by the franchisee's local or state regs. too.

Others here already on the move in the states you mention should be able to advise you on current conditions, but I've never had concerns in them.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Darrell Terry

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 01:37:22 AM »
Joel,
 I was considering a fill-up at Pilot in Brooks, OR. tomorrow. Noticed that they sell B15 Bio-Diesel.
Best I can find in Keizer,OR near where we are currently located  was B-10.
Pacific Pride/Loves Travel Center in Troutdale,OR has Diesel #2.
I plan to stop at Loves - My question was for future fill-ups.
 So is the following correct ?
#1 -  Diesel #2
#2  Low Sulphur Diesel #2
#3  Bio-diesel - The lower number the better !
Darrell
2004 Monterey
350 Cummins ISC

David T. Richelderfer

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 02:11:55 AM »
In order by highest price...

Diesel #1, also known as Stove Oil, about $0.30 per gallon higher than Diesel #2

Diesel #2, Low Sulphur is mandated by federal law on highways, I believe; and then you have
Diesel #2, Low Sulphur cut with varying percentages of Bio, i.e., 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, and the price per gallon goes down with each higher percentage blend of Bio.

Note: Usually more refined products have lower energy value.  For example, gasoline has less energy than diesel.
         The higher the percentage of Bio in diesel, the less energy value it has... thus, your mileage will suffer a little using Bio.
         Some say fuel filters will plug with fewer miles using Bio Diesels versus non-Bio Diesels.
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Darrell Terry

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 02:22:04 AM »
Thanks David,
 I didn't know all Diesel was now low sulphur. Plan to fill with Diesel #2 at Loves/Pacific Pride in Troutdale,OR  tomorrow.
Darrell
2004 Monterey
350 Cummins ISC

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 03:57:05 AM »
Darrell,
This is a pretty good guide to bio % by state. http://www.dieselboss.com/fuel.htm
Generally I try to stay away from Flying J/Pilot as they tend to pump high % of bio. Loves seems to be better. Highest I've seen is 15%. I've heard (no data tho) that companies that have their own refineries. e.g. Valero, Shell, Chevron tend to have the lowest % of bio diesel. Interestingly, I've never been seen a bio % listed for these cos.
Steve
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2015- 6/24  07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
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Roy C Tyler

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 05:59:20 AM »
The Pacific Pride next to I5 in Ashland OR has 20% bio.  I accidentally pumped it into my tank.  I added about 20 gallons to a half full tank before I realized it and stopped pumping.  That was two years ago and there were no ill effects from it as I topped it off with #2.

Joel Ashley

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 06:17:47 AM »
Yes, the State may dictate a minimum Bio content, but any distributor/producer can "dilute" their diesel with a higher %.  It's another reason to be in the habit of prepping for refills at the half tank point.  If all you come across is 20% you have leeway to wait.

Also note that many providers offer more than one grade of biodiesel, and you may have to check more than one pump if they aren't signed obviously at the island approaches... kind of pita.  Here is a site that can help a little if you click-check only the B1-B11 box at the bottom, but the site is kind of clumsy, and is better if you already have a station and its name in mind, but need to know if they have lower level biodiesels:  http://www.brevardbiodiesel.org/map/bd.html  .

Also, on reflection to earlier statements, low sulphur diesel was used as a misnomer;  since June 1, 2006 diesel sold in the US and most of Europe has been ULSD, Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel. 

Pioneer Fuel told me years ago the Pacific Pride franchisees of course met the minimum state Bio content regulations, which for many is 10% or less, and then if facilities have extra tankage, they'll offer multiple grades.  It's easy enough to check the blends available at any PP facility by going to their website.  Conceivably that's possible with any large-enough fuel chain.

The local PP I frequent sells 5%, but doesn't appear on the above linked site, so it may not show card-lock providers.  CFN and PP are owned by the same company now, and I hope they both continue clinging to the state minimums, as they'll possibly issue a card common to both, expanding available locations for members.

Joel
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 09:24:47 AM by Joel Ashley »
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat

Edward Buker

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Re: Diesel - Bio Diesel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2017, 03:47:03 PM »
Darrel,

After a lot of research, my personal conclusion is that a small % of biodiesel like 5% or less can be optimum because the bio component adds lubricity that low sulphur diesel does not possess. That being said even with low sulphur diesel and the amount of miles we put on will never wear out an engine. So straight petroleum number 2 or Bioblend up to 5% is optimum. As the biobend % goes up you are more likely to have fuel with more moisture in it given biodiesel has an affinity to absorb water then petroleum based stock, and data from samples of biostock show much higher water content then petroleum stock ...they are just different animals.

The issue is if you sit a lot, which over the road truckers do not do, you sit with more moisture in the fuel rail along with the fuel and there can be oxidation (rusting) of the tight tolerance components if the levels get too high. Bio portion of the fuel will absorb water from the air. My advise is to do the best you can at filling with 5% or less bioblend, if you are going to be traveling and consuming it in the near term then higher % bio blend is less of an issue and high volume dealers with fresh fuel are better candidates.

If you are a seasonal traveler and your coach sits for months in the winter, especially in a damp environment, I would drive out of my way to do straight petroleum diesel for storage. That is the most critical consideration along with keeping a full tank. As with all these things we do the best we can. Enjoy your travels and don't worry if you find your in a situation where you have to buy a higher blend. Think of this as a guideline you follow when you can, except for storage time.

Later Ed