Beaver Patriot Thunder Won't Start

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Tom,
Are you sure of the Road Choice part #? Their web site doesn't show any such animal.
Steve

[Tom Blad]

Steve,

This is the part number as listed on my bill by the Volvo truck dealer that installed. RC-ALT24H. Price was $198.63 plus $550 installation. Said they had a hard time getting the pulley off the old one. When your on the road  traveling and have to get somewhere they GOTCHA. I tried to look it up on the Road Choice site also and couldn't find it. I did find it on a different truck parts website, but couldn't get much additional information other than it is a hinge mount rated at 160 amps. They listed a Delco 8600310 as a cross reference.

Tom

 

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Think it is equivalent to their 8329 which is also a 160A unit, but not sure.
Steve

[Tom Blad]

To All,

SUCCESS!  SUCCESS! I  THINK! After switching the I and R leads on the alternator and taking more readings just to make sure I gave it a try. Engine started right up and no clicking. Ran it for about 5 minutes and  turned key to stop and it shut as it should. I'm going to let her rest for the night.  After 49 days of non stop digging, pushing, pulling and yes , a few choice words I think we finally got to the root of the problem. Will do more exploring , etc, to make sure there are not any more gremlins lurking in there. After getting false hope several times we are not ecstatic yet. After this amount of time it will take some time to get back to normal thinking. We are not in a total celebration mode yet just in case but are getting close. Thanks to all and I will post more when/if everything continues to check out.

Tom

[Stan Simpson]

To All,

SUCCESS!  SUCCESS!  After getting false hope several times we are not ecstatic yet. We are not in a total celebration mode yet just in case but are getting close.

Looking forward to your post when it's affirmed. I think SUCCESS! SUCCESS! is pretty ecstatic! 

[Edward Buker]

Tom,

A big congratulations! This scenario makes sense, the errant connection at the alternator was pulling excess current and tripping and cycling the thermal breaker. Apparently this errant wiring was also back feeding voltage to the output side of key switch circuit wiring, that kept the ignition on at a marginal voltage level, so it would not repeatedly shut down when you turned the key off.

There is a lesson here about retracing steps of electrical work that has been done recently by someone else, if something isn't right. Although you would like to think that you would not have to, verifying that the wiring is correct, and the electrical connections are tight after someone works on your coach is probably a good practice if you have the skills. It is especially easy for a tech to mix up wiring when you are not using an exact replacement part and another alternator in this case may have differing terminal placement or labeling.

Later Ed

[Dave Atherton]

Tom, great job in staying with problem. The bad thing about all of this, you paid big dollars to
inherent a problem and that is becoming all to common today. Again the BAC forum is a real
Important tool in assisting members. Steve Huber has spent countless hour digging for information.
Problem today as motorhomes getting age on them, like kind parts or one size will work for all
but will not work correct and tech mechanic's are not experienced to see problem at hand. The
good Tom, that has came from all of this ( you have a better understanding about your Engine
And motorhome chassis). Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Tom
Glad you are running (and stopping) again!
Steve

[Bob Jae]

Great job Tom way to stick with it.

[Ron Johnson]

Wow Tom what a success! At least we'll call it a success at this point and hope it stays that way. As I have the same coach as you and will probably be replacing an alternator in the near future your detailed troubleshooting was invaluable to me as well as others .. Thank you!!

[Tom Blad]

Well, it has been six days since we called this a success and I think it still holds! Coach has started and stopped without fail on several occasions. However, I felt that the batteries were still not charging as they should so I removed the alternator and had it checked. Sure enough it was only putting out 8 amps. Dropped it off at a repair facility at 5 pm yesterday and today at 10 am they called and said it was ready to be picked up. They replaced the regulator/diode module. I am getting ready to reinstall and want to make absolutely sure I get it hooked up correctly. I have 5 wires to connect to the alternator. The ground and the large positive output cable are pretty obvious as to where they are to be attached. It's the other 3 white wires that I am concerned with. The following readings were taken at the end of the wire when none of the wires were attached to the alternator. #1 wire showed 12.51v with ignition off and 12.38v with switch set to ACC. Wire #2 showed 0v in off position and 12.28v on ACC. Wire # 3 showed 0v with ignition off and 0v with ignition on ACC. On the back of the alternator there are 3 terminals (not including the ground) R, I, and B+. The large positive cable I am pretty sure attaches to the B+ terminal.  Previously I had taken readings at the alternator terminals with the wires attached and of course the reading were different than the above readings. Based on these readings can anyone advise with certainty on which alternator terminals the other 3 white wires attach to the alternator? Also, once I get the alternator reinstalled what should the approximate readings be at the 3 terminals with the engine running?

Once again, thanks to all who have responded throughout this saga and offered their helpful suggestions, especially to Steve who I know must have spent numerous hours on this and also to Ed for his thoughtful input. I started with almost zero knowledge on the subject and have gained at least a basic understanding of a lot of systems on the coach. As was noted above some of the placards installed on our coach were not the correct ones. This caused a lot of delays. Anyone else with this year and model who is running into problems of this nature feel free to contact me and discuss if necessary.

Tom



       
 
           

[Lee Welbanks]

To late now, but always tag wires or take pics before taking the piece apart, smart phone is a powerful tool.

[Tom Blad]

I do have pictures and the wires were tagged before I removed the faulty alternator. As I mentioned in a previous post, I believe the problem occurred when the repair facility installed the new alternator and they did not connect the wires properly. Yes, it would have been nice to have pictures before they replaced it, but if you have ever broken down on the road things don't always go as you would like. The question now is what is the proper placement of the wires? I want to double check with anyone that has a similar coach set up (i.e. echo charger) with a properly connected alternator. I believe I now have it connected properly. Just want to double check. Don't want to have it repaired again.

My readings which were taken today with the engine running was R terminal=10.57v, I terminal=12.20v, and B+ terminal=12.94.

Tom

[Bart Mix]

Tom - without any warning last year I had the same problem. No lights on your shift pad & the engine can't tell if the tranny is in neutral - so no start! I took the shift pad & the ECU/M? to a Allison dealer to test. Turns out my shift pad was defective. Allison sells a new shift pad replacement for mine at about $950 which is guaranteed for only 90 days. I found a company in Conn. via the Internet which sells rebuilt units for about $350 & they guarantee them for 1 year. The shift pad has to be programmed to your engine VIN #. I supplied the VIB # to the folks in Conn. Took 3 days to get to me while I was on the road. You just have to return the shift pad unit or pay a core charge.
Bart from VA

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Tom,
Wire 233 should go to the I (ING) terminal. The B+ terminal should be connected to battery voltage. This leaves terminal R should be alt out for the 3rd wire. Verify this is how you had it connected before you removed the alternator.
Steve