Patriot Thunder - Engine & Generator won't turn over

[Randy Stephenson]

I left the Beaver unplugged for a week, when trying to start the engine it would not turn over to enough to start.  Tried the boost battery switch no luck.  So I attempted to start the generator to charge the system, it would not turn over either.

I checked the control panel, batteries are have 54% charge remaining, also checked the batteries with meter, the engine and house batteries are at 11.7 volts.  The MH has been parked outside, so I thought the solar panel keep the chassis batteries charged.

Do the engines need over 12 volts to start?

Meanwhile, I ran a long extension cord and plugged in.

Randy

[Joel Ashley]

Randy, when you're down to 12v you're actually half discharged and that's not enough to crank a heavy diesel, even with the house set involved - they're more than half discharged too.  At 11.7v, if I recall correctly, you're closer to 25% all around.  I've a table that illustrates all that in my manual, but it's not handy at the moment.

Your solar controller should have kept things charged as long as all devices were off, or better yet both master switches were.  If all was off but you measure no input voltage at the house batteries while parked sun-exposed, compared to with a tarp over the solar panel, then locate and check the solar circuit 5 amp fuse.  But good luck there... not even a BCS tech could find the fuse on ours.  It may be on or near your particular solar controller, which may be like ours in the waste tank bay with the Aladdin modules and such - supposedly the fuse is on the positive wire between the controller and the Aladdin's "solar volts" port on the "DC Interface Module".

Even with all devices on board theoretically off, I've found parasitic engine control and other modules can drain things as fast or faster than the solar controller can keep up... it's weather-dependent, needs to be relatively clean for optimum performance, and doesn't work at night.  It's best to make sure the 12v Main's are off.  Make sure someone hasn't jury-rigged some add-on directly to the battery banks, bypassing the mains, although I'd not expect that to drain them both.

Joel

Addendum.  I should note that the Aladdin has one screen that portrays the solar charge rate along with other electrical data.  Like for house current, there is a current sensor loop encircling the solar wire (not the "solar volts" one) and that feeds data to the Aladdin DC module's "solar amps" port.

[Edward Buker]

Randy,

The Chassis batteries would run down in that time due to powering the engine ECU(draws 2 to 3 amps) but the house bank should not with the main switches off. Try and leave the coach with the main battery switches off.

 I would charge both bank, assure engine starting is working, and when I leave the coach for storage remove the main chassis bank lead to the coach and use a tie wrap to tie it securely to the insulated  portion of another battery cable so it cannot find its way into touching anything conductive.

If you have a meter you can check the voltage at the house bank while sitting in the sun and see if you are up at 12.8V or more, meaning you are getting some charge while sitting. If not, the solar panel output should be checked as Joe mentioned, as well as the house bank to see if possibly a bad battery in the bank might be involved.

Later Ed

[Randy Stephenson]

Joel and Ed:

Thank you for the quick reply, I checked Aladdin, it shows the solar panel is providing around 1.7 amps (sun is setting here, so it appears to be functioning).  The house batteries are at 20 amps charging.  So, it most likely the panel could not keep up to with the parasite drain.  So, now I know.

I'm going to have the Norcold safety checked tomorrow.  Plan to have the batteries load tested.

Thanks again,

Randy

[Edward Buker]

Randy,

The parasitic drain is on the chassis set and it cannot be eliminated by turning off the chassis battery switch which is why removing the cable when storing is a good idea. On the house side shutting ff the house bank switch should eliminate all drain and the panels should keep the house set charged with no load on them. Try this approach before going in for load testing.

If you find yourself in a situation where you have to use the emergency start button, the proper way is to hold that down for a minute or two before any cranking of the engine. The chassis batteries are a big load when they are depleted and you are trying to bring some charge to them so the house set is not trying to supply all the current they can take and the starter motor all at the same time. This helps get you started. Of course if you can start the generator first and hold that emergency button down that has added another current source (inverter charger) to help out.

Later Ed

[Randy Stephenson]

Ed:

Thanks, after an all night charge batteries were up to 13.7 volts.  She started right up.  Also, the solar panel was putting out 0.0 amps at night and 5.0 amps in the morning sun.  So, I now know it is working. It would seem that 5.0 amp solar panel output would maintain the chassis batteries.  Not sure how to check if any other items besides the engine ECM is draining power. 

I need to read the manual and set up the gen-start sequence, so that the batteries don't go into the sub-12 volts range.  When I had the start issue, the batteries were at 54% state of charge (hence, thought I still had enough reserve to start) However there was not enough power to even start the the generator.  I had to patch together 200 feet of extension cords to get to where the MH was parked in the yard to plug in.

[Edward Buker]

Randy,

Not sure if you have a Big Boy system or an Echo charger but the house batteries need to reach a voltage threshold before a secondary system allows them to be placed in parallel and then the chassis battery set gets charged. It may be with solar that you do not quite reach the required battery coupling voltage level and the drain is too great on the chassis set to overcome.

If I did not have a way to plug the coach in I would opt for shutting the battery switches off and disconnecting the one chassis battery lead while sitting rather than run the generator intermittently all the time.

Later Ed