2005 PT with c13, issues?

[Tom Barnard]

We are currently thinking about trading our 05 Monterey for an 05 Patriot Thunder with a C13 in it.
I know our gas mileage will suffer, but was wondering if there are any inherent problems with the C13.
I did a search and found there was a class action lawsuit but the details seemed vague.
Anyone here with any advice would be appreciated.
The new coach has about 40k on it.
Thanks as always!

[Dave Atherton]

Tom, I can be of help with your questions on your Cat C-13. I have information on my SIS
Caterpillar service information system that can provide you any upgrades, problems issues.
What I can tell you the Cat C-13 is a very good engine with the twin turbocharger setup. At
first there were problems with turbochargers and Caterpillar corrected that and really was the
real concern. There is 21 service bulletins on upgrade of certain components that failed but
after the turbochargers nothing major. As far as the class action suits which related around the
regeneration system. Today the C-13 engine is. Trouble free work horse and would not be afraid
to own one. I can get into further information if you would like print out on upgrades. I would ,
to really reinforce your thoughts go get a caterpillar ET computer readout with printout, that
will show all history from your engine since first time started. Caterpillar dealer can provide
that service ( charge for doing that ) or if you are at BAC rally at Farmington I have Cat ET and
can connect Cat ET to your engine and provide that service also. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Mike Shumack]

To add to what Dave said, the 2005 C13 does not have the "regeneration" (CRS) system referred to. So these engines are really very good.
\
The lawsuit only applies to 2007 and newer engines:

The Settlement offers payments to current and former owners and lessees of vehicles with EPA 2007 Compliant Caterpillar On Highway C13 and C15 engines (manufactured in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009) (“Subject Engines”).

[Tom Barnard]

ok.. Thanks guys. We are going to look at it this weekend.

[Mike Shumack]

what kind of mileage are you getting on the Monterey?
I get about 5.5 mph on my PT.

[Tom Barnard]

I'm getting 6.5-7mpg towing our Explorer.

[Frank Bergamo]

Tom, I have read that the 2005 Beavers with the C-13 have inadequate air intake systems. From what I have read the fix is to install a C-15 air intake system. That may explain the very poor fuel mileage. My C-12 Marquis with tag, towing a Honda CRV will get 7MPG all day long no matter how fast I drive. If I keep speed in the 60 MPH range, 7.5 to 8 MPG is the norm. For me, the C-12 is the way to go considering only 20 more HP and 100 FT LBS of torque with the C-13. If you can do the work yourself it will only add the cost of the C-15 air intake parts. I don't know the cost, but I would guess it is several hundred dollars to convert. Also, 2004 was the last year with the C-12. Hope this helps.

[Mike Shumack]

the C-13 have inadequate air intake systems. From what I have read the fix is to install a C-15 air intake system.

That's interesting Frank. Can you provide a link to the source where this info is coming from?

How does improving the air intake system improve fuel mileage? I would think the only way to increase mpg is to put "less fuel" in the engine over the same distance traveled - but that would then decrease power.

What does the "C15 air intake system" in this fix consist of (turbo, CAC, piping)?

[Joel Ashley]

I'm getting 6.5-7mpg towing our Explorer.

Exactly Ditto. 

We did once go from Portland to Twin Falls (600+ miles) on I-84 on 65 gallons;  I’m sure it was mostly from a following west wind almost the entire way, as well as dedication to posted speeds (preferably truck - 6th gear, 57-60), Economy Mode, and cruise control.

As was mentioned, the regeneration issue Dave alluded to would be a couple model years later when such systems first emerged, doesn’t have a pony in this show, and he didn’t imply that it does.  You may appreciate, like you and I currently do with our Montys, not having to mess with DEF.  Since I’ve read many larger-engine owners’ accounts of not much worse mileage than ours, I have to relegate mileage more to individual maintenance and driving habit, esp. speed and gear tendencies, as opposed to engine size.  The air intake aspect has been broached with respect to some coaches before, and is worth your further research.

Joel

[Frank Bergamo]

Here are a couple links addressing the problem, http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,3052.msg22840/topicseen.html#msg22840 and http://forum.dieselrvclub.org/index.php?topic=6935.0. Hope this helps.