2000 Beaver patriot

[Ken Sair]

A friend of mine just purchased a 2000 Beaver Patriot with a 3126 CAT engine. Installed is a 'Racor Integrated Diesel Fuel filtration system', Model MS. This is an aftermarket product thats supposed to replace the primary fuel filter and drain any air in the system. However, the coach still has a primary and main fuel filter installed. The system has a small clear container which is half full. The manufacturer says air is in the system and this product needs to be replaced with a newer version. He is experiencing loss of power when climbing hills and the manufacturer says its because of a faulty gasket.

This product seems redundant and unnecessary to me since he has a primary and main fuel filter/water separator. Does anyone have this system on their coach? Can anyone render advice. Seems like if we were just to remove it we would be OK.

TX, Ken

[Keith Moffett]

Yes, we do and the small filter with metal screen works just fine as is.  I understand that the o-rings need servicing on ocasion.

[Edward Buker]

Ken,

I'm a little unclear if you have two or three filter systems on the coach. I'm also not sure if the unit you are referring to is maybe a Racor 12963 or some other filter system. Is it the one in this link?

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.de7b26ee6a659c147cf26710237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=fcc9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextcatid=2913342&vgnextcat=RK12963+INTEGRATED+RETROFIT+KIT&Wtky=

If it is, then an air space in the plastic vessel is a normal occurrence by design. You will roughly have somewhere between 25% and 50% of the screened plastic part filled with fuel when the engine is running. As mentioned the Orings can be a problem if aged or cracked and the plastic filter housing can rarely have a fine crack in it that could leak air. In that case the fuel level would be nearly voided in the plastic housing. It is a bit unnerving to see the  "fuel void" in the plastic vessel in a diesel system but is is a normal occurrence for this design.

A little history.... This is a Wynn design. It was bought out by Parker/Racor. The plastic screen unit, although we may think of it as a water separator, it is not. If water entered this unit it would exit out the bottom. This unit was designed in to protect the electric pump from debris that could damage the priming pump. The screen was sized to perform that function. The main fuel system pump pulls a vacuum trough the multiple filters reaching this screened plastic unit and the amount of vacuum vs flow required to pull the fuel from the tank will regulate the level in the plastic housing. I changed all my filters recently and the fuel level typically ran at more than half full in the plastic vessel with the old filters and after the filter change it is now at 25%. The flow rate being greater with less plugged or restrictive filters moved the resultant fuel level lower in the plastic housing. As the filters age and get more restrictive the fuel level will rise. It is a useful visual indicator of flow and restriction. The fuel gets pulled from the bottom of the plastic housing which is a "full fuel column" right at the small bottom exit of the plastic housing so there is no air being pulled unless there is an air leak from the Orings. I'm guessing many of these units have been changed assuming they are defective because people see a visible air space in a diesel fuel system and assume that there is an air leak.

The final filter with the smallest pore size is the most likely filter causing restriction. It is inexpensive enough to change all the fuel filters to rule that out as the cause of the loss of power. This may be more than anyone wanted to know about this filter system but it is one of those items where concern arises about air getting into the fuel system, especially for new owners.

later Ed

[Richard And Babs Ames]

We ended up replacing the whole system in the Parker brand with a

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.7100150cebe5bbc2d6806710237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=f5c9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextcatid=2759464&vgnextcat=400+SERIES+FUEL+FILTER%2FWATER+SEPARATORS&Wtky=

We had replaced the plastic fuel water seperator twice and the electric pump failed and started leaking so ditched the whole deal. The Racor manual pump with a spin on filter and plastic bottom bowl is simpler and in common usage in the trucking industry. The replacement elements are also cheaper.

[Ken Sair]

I will forward all this on to Larry.  There are now 3 filters.  Both the primary (nearest the fuel tank,) and main (on the engine) were changed. There was some improvement.  The loss of power occurs on hills.  Flatland driving, there are no problems.  I do know the coach was stored with1/4 full fuel tank, and only two trips were taken in the last year. Larry is going to give it an algae treatment. It was Racor who said the half full screen was faulty and should be full.

I'm thinking an algae treatment, several tanks of fresh fuel, and maybe a filter or two should resolve this, after removal of this '3rd' racor filter system.

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Ken your friend may want to consider getting the fuel "polished" which is common in the boat industry where the fuel is filtered to get rid of the algae and water that may be in the tank.

[Edward Buker]

Ken,

I'm still not clear on what filter units are involved here. I think the M series that you refer to is the Racor 12963 in the link I referenced. On that unit the first filter is the screen which should be visibly clean, the next inline is the S3230P 30 micron pre filter and then a Cat High efficiency 2 micron filter. (Not sure which one) If there is another cartridge other than S3230P  in the prefilter it could also be more restrictive with a smaller micron rating.

If there has been an additional filter beyond these units added inline, then each filter does add restriction and that may be the source of the problem under high fuel demand and elimination one of the units would be wise. If there is an extra filter unit installed you should also check the flow capacity of that unit. It should be a minimum of 60GPH with 90GPH preferred.

If you are talking about the 12963 unit with the clear plastic filter and metal screen I can assure you that unit will not be full by design. I had questions about that unit and Racor Tech support actually got hold of the Wynn designer and we had a 3 way discussion regarding this unit, how it was designed, and how it functions. If it was a closed plastic housing on the bottom then it would seperate water (water settling at the bottom) and any air would flow out the top fuel exit and the housing would stay full of fuel by design.

My C12 is rated at 505HP and with these filter units I have never had a fuel starvation issue while climbing passes so by design these units should be more than adequate to supply fuel to a 3126. Several other things that come to mind is a screen on the tank pickup plugging or a kink in the fuel line between the tank and the prefilter as possibilities.


Later Ed

[Bill Sprague]

Ken your friend may want to consider getting the fuel "polished" which is common in the boat industry where the fuel is filtered to get rid of the algae and water that may be in the tank.

Richard (or Babs),

A couple years ago I plugged a fuel filter to the point the engine barely ran.  Diagnosis, troubleshooting and repair are another story but a bad load of fuel was blamed.  Living in the Puget Sound area I figured it would be easy to find the service of "fuel polishing".  I failed to find anybody.  Apparently this is another of the small businesses that have gone away with environmental and liability concerns.  Instead I found systems with pumps and multiple filters to buy and install in your boat to do the polishing on board.

Bill

[Gerald Farris]

Bill and Richard,
I do not know of anyone who does fuel polishing on a motorhome. The size of our fuel tanks does not justify the cost and liability. There are a few people who do fuel polishing in the marine industry because their tanks can be many times larger than ours and more prone to water and microbe growth.

If you get microbe growth in a motorhome fuel tank it can be corrected with a biocide and filter replacements much easier and more economically than fuel polishing.

Gerald

[Ken Sair]

Gerald, are you at all familiar with the add on system I described? I keep thinking it can be removed without issue and go back to the more common two filter system most of us use. Both the original filters are setup up in the side bay for convenience. Seems this add on can be removed and a fuel line added from the main filter to the engine. Any thoughts. I am trying to get a few pictures to confirm what I saw briefly several weeks ago. Seems the weather in Northern CA is crummy. I want to see the two fuel filter setup with the add-on before I ask any more questions.

thanks all

[Gerald Farris]

Ken,
I am not familiar with the system that you described, or know why it would have been added to the coach, since the original fuel filtration system on the coach was very adequate.

Gerald

[Richard And Babs Ames]

Gerald, many places will do motorhomes in FL. We have a lot of diesel stationary engines on  irrigation and other lift pumps that have 1000 plus gallon tanks that have the problem in our high humidity in FL.

Several diesel mechanics have also advised against the water dispersant as it stops the fuel filter's ability to stop the water and it passes through the fuel injectors. I do not know if it can harm the injectors but it is a common recommendation in our area.

We had it done on a motorhome about 12 years ago. They worked it in on the way to another job where they passed close by. Cost was under $150 and we had 80 plus gallons of fuel in the tank.

[Ken Sair]

Thanks Gerald, my thoughts exactly. We don't know why it was installed originally, and can't figure out why its needed now. It is attached between the primary and main fuel filters. It appears to be some kind of automatic purge system you never have to check (12 volt wiring). My thoughts are to remove it, and add a fuel line to reconnect the primary filter with the fuel line (where this thing was spliced in). Then its back to the normal two filter system, like most Diesel coaches. Maybe just a matter of getting the right length of fuel line.

Ken