Cat engine operation question

[Dave Atherton]

Joel, think you are correct and understand we are not train mechanics and breaking out
Diagnostic Codes is getting into area where stress will over come problem at hand . Maybe
This will help clear up a few things. Caterpillar has what is called diagnostic codes and they
are listed in different ways so the operator can understand the seriousness of what is happening.
Number one active fault codes that are logged on engine ECM. What this means STOP ENGINE
and do not run until you can locate problem and or call tow truck. Number two, logged codes,
logged codes will show operator something been happening but is not active ( if Code is not active
do not worry about it. ) Number three, Event codes of which in about most all cases tell operator
What is going on but not a out of service. What event code means just what it says , an event
Has taken place but may come and go. ( like a short on switch, comes and goes or dirty electrical
Connection ). The diagnostic readout ECM will tell a person engine hour clock time, occurrence
first time and last time engine clock and total occurrence.for example heat sensor occurrence 178
times will pin point electrical short of faulty heat sensor. Last this is called a logged event code.
many event codes will clear after 100 miles. Again misunderstanding in areas that require a trained
Technician can be sometime very stressful. Myself with all these different monitors on your dash
to help you understand your engine while driving a person needs to understand your Caterpillar
engine has all the fail safe built into engine to protect engine. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Robin Goffrier]

Dave, you're great. Thanks. My issue is finding the actual code, as the diagnostic readout on the coach panel is not speaking Cat. I called Monaco tech in Coberg, Or. They built the coach. No help at all.  They did suggest I find a Freightliner dealership to plug in to the cat port on the engine.

[Robin Goffrier]

The picture is my data monitor on which I get pressures, temps, fuel info and trip info. It also reads the fault codes when I press the "Diag button as opposed to temps or pressure. But these codes are not explained anywhere I can find or by anyone I've talked with.

[Dave Atherton]

Robin, I will answer your question on the what is called Diagnostic Blink Codes tomorrow
for your Caterpillar C-9 engine. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Joel Ashley]

Thanks for supplying the photo Robin.  That helps a lot since many of us don’t have such an installation and had trouble picturing it.  It may now also serve to draw in others that have it and understand it.

Joel

[Mike Shumack]

I have a couple of CAT fault Code lists that I found on the internet (supposed to be for C-13) but even with the lists it is still hard for the coach owner to figure out what is going on, because the codes don't always have the same description/explanation. 

It may be the the fault code lists we get vary some depending on serial number (engine generation) or maybe the on-line sources are creating their own charts with their own explanations of the codes. I don't know.

For example if the copy-paste snap shot I made below from two different charts, note how the code 190-00 is identified as "Overspeed Shutdown" on one code list and a 190-0 "Overspeed Warning" on the other code list. Similarly, the descriptions for Fuel Pressure codes are different (i.e. see 94-03). This is just two examples - comparing the lists I have seen this seems to be common (and usually there are codes missing form the lists - like the 190-02).

This makes it hard for the weekend-mechanic to figure out what is going on and perform some initial troubleshooting.

[Dave Atherton]

Mike, yes you are correct and this has been what I have trying to pass on. This is why I spend
a great deal of time helping with my background to our Breaver family. Yes I do have access to
Technical Caterpillar Information that I pass forward both on the forum and at Diesel Seminars
that I put for members at Beaver Rally’s when asked. There is lots of information out on the web
and question what you believe. There is not one size fits all approach with owing a motorhome,
meaning if your engine is a Caterpillar or a Cummins my suggestion stay with the builder of your
engine both with technical information, replacement parts OEM, price shopping with a $ 35,000.
To $ 50,000.engine for aftermarket parts is not in many best interest. Owning a Diesel engine
today, repairs are very pricy but with good maintenance habits these Diesels Engine are built for
the long haul. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Robin Goffrier]

Short of purchasing a Cat data reader which is very expensive how does an owner/operator find out which code triggered the Check Engine light?

[Mike Shumack]

You can get a generic code reader - they are not very expensive. The problem I was bringing up in the post above - was figuring out what the code "means" and how to troubleshoot it without a CAT manual (as the code lists I found on-line do not appear to be 100% accurate).

However for the cost of taking your coach to the shop to have a code read (an hour of shop time) you can buy a reader. This is the one I am planning to get
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N4GH6UZ/?coliid=I1BLFXW6JOIL1N&colid=34RG5S9GGW64I&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

I just added info from Dave Atherton  to Ask Dave.  http://beaveramb.org/?post_type=acadp_listings&p=5806&preview=true
Steve

[Doug Allman]

IMHO In a few polite words I will add that CAT and Cummins, world wide operations, do not digress to the furnishing of technical information for their engines to WANNA BE mechanics. In order to be able to have access to their proprietary data you have to be a company certified mechanic to be able purchase and utilize their systems.  They take a lot of steps to protect some of their more complex data and only provide it through their corporate systems.
What you find on the open web is not going to get you to become anything more than a Saturday mechanic. When you are dealing with a $30-60,000 engine you are taking a lot of risk for supposedly saving some small amount of $$. The Beaver Ambassador Club has a one of a kind certified 42 year retired CAT mechanic, not an auto diesel mechanic, but an over the road or off road certified CAT mechanic that maintains the CAT SIS program as well as the Cummins program that avails him to proprietary information from both companies. Use the privilege we have with ASK DAVE to get factual information for your coach engine. AND, DAVE does it for nothing, which is just foolish to me. We pay people more for music that does nothing to help with our coach's.

[Dave Atherton]

Gentleman, I can understand the confusion we are having on wanting to get information for
our Diesel Engines. Yes there are many kinds of aftermarket code reader but the point nobody
seems to understand because the diagnostic codes cannot be broken out and the meaning of
codes posted may add into a real lot of trouble,  it’s your engine or spending money that gives
a person piece of mind. Any codes that one would think a failed sensor or relay because it say
Boost pressure or extreme temperature etc. again one would think I will go get the part for that
code only to find no difference in engine performance. Why because many of the diagnostic codes are
called mechanical codes that require no parts. Going back we had the push for adding chips and
tunners to our Diesel engine, except how these aftermarket add-on connect into out group of
5 five volt sensors. The only problem with many gigmos, you cannot change the value of a Five
volt sensor and you cannot change the fuel rate limit as gigmos require. The sky is not falling and
you I’ll find the BAC forum is a very outstanding sourse for technical information that is passed
along in team effort and everyone has many years of experience helping members in need.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

[Joel Ashley]

but the point nobody
seems to understand because the diagnostic codes cannot be broken out and the meaning of
codes posted may add into a real lot of trouble

Some of us do understand, Dave.  I looked into scanners a while back, and though I might yet get one for my other vehicles, I determined that not even a "truck" one is appropriate for my CAT.  Your admonitions back up my conclusion.  Thank you!  Such a unit may not code me down a proper path just because I have an on highway engine.  To me it's not worth the cost or risk of a misguided clue.

Just my 2 cents.

Joel

[Robin Goffrier]

I, in no way, wish to be a Cat diesel shade tree mechanic. Such is not my reason for needing/wanting to know which code told me to check my engine. But I am a thousand miles from home (and Peterson Cat) and I have a check engine
light which will not reset. There are no Cat or Freightliner shops within 75 - 100 miles and I have engaged a mechanic, who says he can decipher the warning, to come to my location to let me know if I can return home without either damaging the engine or expecting additional related issues. It is interesting that manufacturers provide these basically blind warnings which certainly concern an operator but from the operators stance provide nothing practically useful beyond that. And it usually hits on some mountain pass smack in the middle of nowhere. And for what its worth, a service call down here runs between $125 and $250 before the clock starts and check engine lights a not an infreequent occurance on a C9S.

[Dave Atherton]

Robin, I can help you with your question. If the diagnostic light starts to flash durning normal
engine operation and lights shuts off, an intermittent fault may have occurred. If a fault will be
logged into the ECM. In cases like this, it is not necessary to stop the engine because of an light
 On/off intermittent. At later time should retrieve the logged code and should review the information
in order to see the nature of what was happening. At same time a person should take observation
what could have caused light on/ off .  First checking low power driving, limits of engine speed and
excessive smoke and color of smoke. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic