Author Topic: House Batteries :-(  (Read 3043 times)

George L Smith

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House Batteries :-(
« on: January 12, 2019, 11:45:32 PM »
I have come to the conclusion that I need to replace my house batteries. As I do some research, I have found that all advice says that all of the house batteries should be the same "type". Flooded Lead Acid, AGM, etc.

In my rig, only owned it for 8 months, and still learning, I figured out that I have 4 200ah AGM sealed Lead acid batteries. Two of the AGMs have the blade connection and don't list the CCA rating, while the other two have the standard battery pole and connection, and list the CCA. As I read HandyBob, he indicates that the two that don't list the CCA are real deep cycle batteries, while the other two, are "hybrid". They even have the words "Super Start" on the bar code sticker. When charging, the Magnum 2812 charger supplies about 13.7 volts during absorb phase, which is below the manufacturers recommended 13.8 - 14.5 volts. I have the battery type set to AGM 2 on the remote.

With almost everything off except the furnace, I couldn't even get through the night while boondocking the other night.

Am I right on my diagnosis?

Mike Shumack

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Re: House Batteries :-(
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2019, 12:18:15 AM »
George, I'm not an expert on this, but I know regarding batteries types that AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) are superior to the old flooded-cell lead-acid. They tolerate heat and vibration better and can be discharged to a lower state and recharged more times without degradation than the old lead-acid type. Plus with sealed cells there is no off-gassing so you don't the have the post corrosion like the other style.

Note that House batteries are designed for a different purpose compared to a Chassis battery. They need to be able to tolerate a long-slow-discharge and then a recharge (Deep-Cycle) (whereas Chassis batteries are designed for a quick, high amperage, short duration discharge (i.e. a starter motor).

So you need to be sure to get AGM "Deep Cycle" batteries - if you are looking for House batteries.

here is some info on pros and cons of AGM https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm

Here is some info copy/pasted from another site that you may find useful.

Quote
Trojan has been the industry leader in the design & manufacturing of deep cycle batteries for over 50 years. When other brands want to establish their deep cycle battery legitimacy and quality, they compare themselves to Trojan. That's what is meant by the "gold standard".  It doesn't necessarily mean they are actually better, but they are viewed as the hallmark of the deep cycle breed.    Their factory is in Sante Fe Springs, CA. 

Concorde/Lifeline is an industry leader in sealed batteries, which they supply to the aircraft industry. Their AGM deep cycles are highly regarded for quality and reliability, perhaps because of the airplane tie-in. Again, not necessarily better than any other, but they have the track record whereas others may not.

Not all Sam's Club stores stock all battery types and sizes, or the same prices. Here is the Sam's Club page for the 6v AGM in the GC2 (golf car) size. A couple of my local (central Florida) Sam's carry them @ $179.73, no doubt because golf cars are numerous there. Maybe not so easy to find in Wyoming.  ;)
https://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-agm-golf-car-battery-group-size-gc2agm/prod3870119.ip

East Penn, Exide, Johnson Controls and US Battery all make deep cycles and AGMs in both 6v and 12v and most common sizes. They are the factory source for nearly all domestic battery brands sold in the USA, including Interstate, Die Hard, Everstart, Deka and other popular brands. US Battery is particularly well-known as a source for moderately priced 6v GC2 flooded cell batteries and they now produce AGMs as well.

Vision is a large Chinese battery maker and a volume manufacturer of VRLA (sealed) batteries, including AGMs. I have no reason at all to doubt their products, so if you can get Vision brand AGMs in the size you want and a price you are willing to pay, go for it. I would be amazed if they are the only brand of golf cart AGM battery available in Tucson. However, given that golf cars use 6 or 8 6v batteries and AGMs are pricey, I suspect most places are focused on flooded cells, which manage to hold up well in golf car use. More people vote with their wallet than by choosing the top quality at any price.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 12:00:17 PM by Mike Shumack »

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: House Batteries :-(
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2019, 01:29:56 AM »
George,
It does sound like batteries are bad. The Super Start web page shows a 6v 200AH unit with blade connectors. You
may want to consider lead-acid for replacements. They are considerable less expansive and if you take care of them and don't let them run dry, they should last for 7+ years. Costco has Interstates for about $99 each (here in AZ).
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: House Batteries :-(
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2019, 04:25:06 AM »
George,
Follow up to my previous post. Before buying batteries, check to see if the BIRD system is operating. While on shore power or generator, check the voltage applied to the chassis and house batteries. If the chassis batteries are reading 12.8v or more, the house batteries should be seeing a similar voltage. If not, you possibly have a bad Big Boy solenoid.
Steve
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 04:08:31 PM by Steve Huber Co-Admin »
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Gerald Farris

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Re: House Batteries :-(
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2019, 04:27:07 AM »
George,
I agree with Steve in that you probably need batteries (you should get them tested), and it will be more cost effective to replace them with lead-acid batteries. AGM batteries are a zero maintenance option, but you will pay approximately twice the price to avoid periodically watering the lead-acid batteries and cleaning terminals annually. There are a few other slight advantages to AGMs in that they recharge more efficiently, so it will take slightly less amp hours to recharge them, but the difference is negligible in my opinion especially if you are charging them with campground power. As for AGMs being able to be recharged more, from my experience in RV use that has not been true as AGMs rarely last longer than lead-acid batteries and often not as long. So if the cost is not an issue, get AGMs and avoid the maintenance, but if you have other things better to spend money on, get lead-acid batteries.

Gerald         

George L Smith

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Re: House Batteries :-(
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2019, 04:17:49 AM »
Thank you all.

I took the batteries to an interstate distributor (Holy crap are they heavy  :o ) and had them load tested. They told me that two of the four were bad. 5 years old. The other two were only 18 months old, and were fine. I replaced the two that were bad...  :( Also, the two that were bad were the Interstates AGM4D that did not list the CCA. So, they were limiting the charge going into the two good batteries.

It's also convinced me to add the ME-BMK monitor. I don't know why, given the expense of this rig, they didn't install it as OEM. It's got basically everything else.  :)

Steve Funk

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Re: House Batteries :-(
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2019, 04:08:32 PM »
George, I added the ME-BMK to my rig and have found it to be a nice addition to keeping my batteries in good shape.  I have flooded cell batteries and always know at a glance my state of charge.  Helps me keep those batteries from discharging lower than I want.