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Author Topic: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?  (Read 752 times)

Dwight Lakusta

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High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« on: March 08, 2019, 02:25:44 PM »
Ok. I asked my truck shop about a high flow (blue) P527682.  They told me nope, they don’t make a blue high flow filter for that number. Ok but check this out, the RS3518 is the same as a Donaldson P527682....
But here is the interesting part..
The RS3518 has a high flow filter.....RS3518 XP....that crosses to a DBA5069..that is the same as a RS3518......sooooo maybe there is a glitch in the Donaldson listings online?  I’m ordering one tomorrow! Maybe someone else already figured this out, but the proof is in on Donaldson online....
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Mike Shumack

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2019, 02:50:52 PM »
So you have a replaceable element in your coach? I'll bet that saves you some money when you need to replace the filter.

My filter consists of the filter media and the metal housing as one unit.

As you noted - The Donaldson part number you listed shows that an alternative "blue"  filter is available. https://shop.donaldson.com/store/en-us/product/P527682/19358?_requestid=5962291  I dont see anythign in the specs that the Blue flows more than tha white filter. The brochure seems to be saying that the Blue filter seals better. Which is not a bad thing.

* But are you having issues with the OEM filter now. Does your restriction gauge show a air flow problem?

On my C13, the filter restriction gauge goes to red after first heavy acceleration so I think my coach could benefit from switching to the larger filter (higher cfm), as described in the prior thread.

However, if you are not showing a restriction problem, then going to a higher flow filter will do nothing for you.
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder, Vicksburg, CAT C13  525HP, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2019, 04:42:15 PM »
I phoned Donaldson.... he says he is bringing the glitch up in the tech department.
-No high flow (on paper) but there CAN be gains but they can’t guarantee it as a listed spec.
-more efficient
-holds more dirt
-media type is ultra web nano fiber vs cellulose (paper)
-99.99 percent filtration vs 99.9 percent... according to the online tech, the .9 is a big deal over time.

I’m sold.

Double the price. But oh well. I own a beaver.

Here is info on the blue filters

https://www.donaldson.com/content/dam/donaldson/engine-hydraulics-bulk/literature/north-america/air/f111431-eng/Donaldson-Blue-Air-Filters-for-Fleetguard-Direct-Flow-Air-Cleaners.pdf
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 07:28:45 PM by Dwight Lakusta »
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 03:21:06 PM »
I just wanted to give you guys an “test” report about the blue Donaldson filter. Every time I would go for a drive with a new paper filter,  my filter reset restriction would be halfway up to the red, and I would basically reset it for fun knowing it would be back at half the first time I gave it throttle. Well the new blue filter is much better flow for sure, the filter reset does not come off of the reset position. I am very happy.
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Mike Shumack

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2019, 06:00:53 PM »
Thanks for the update.
On my next filter change, I'll do the "Blue" filter and switch from my current 11" filter to the larger (13" diameter used on the Marquis) filter. Looks like I only need to get the larger mounting brackets to make the swap.
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder, Vicksburg, CAT C13  525HP, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift

Bill Lampkin

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2019, 10:53:42 PM »
On my '05 Patriot (C-13), my filter minder never gets lower than midway in its range, even w/a new filter. Filter minder will reset to zero when pressed, so I know its working. I would love to see less restriction on the intake to my Big Cat.

A while back, a fellow member of this group from Manitoba (I believe) swapped his intake piping from 5" dia to 7" as used on the C-15. Big improvement, he said. Now my question; On the electronically controlled Cats, like my C-13, aren't all the fuel parameters set by the computer? If so, won't the various sensor readings 'compensate' for any non-significant intake restriction and will still set the fuel flow to the correct (stoichiometric) ratio? So what is to gain by reducing inlet restriction? Less restriction is better, understood, but will this result in a measurable mileage gain, cooler temps or??

Just pondering, and Happy Easter!
2005 Patriot Thunder Lexington, 3 slides
40' tag axle (short wheelbase)
525 hp C13

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2019, 11:39:32 PM »
Bill,
Air flow is a relatively straight forward calculation. Calculate the cross-sectional area of the input to the air filter. As long as all other tubing and intake vents have that or greater cross sectional area, you don't have any restrictions. Increasing the pipe size beyond this won't help much, IMHO.
Steve
Steve
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2019, 12:16:15 AM »
Also...

Bends in the piping will significantly reduce airflow... especially 90 degree bends.  If space is available for two back-to-back 45 degree turns which results in a long sweeping turn as opposed to a shorter and sharper turn, then the airflow will not be as badly restricted.
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Bill Lampkin

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2019, 03:10:40 AM »
And since the C-13 is turbocharged, doesn't this negate any air starving issues (within reason)? The turbo also eliminates loss of power at altitude, as I understand it.
2005 Patriot Thunder Lexington, 3 slides
40' tag axle (short wheelbase)
525 hp C13

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2019, 06:51:57 AM »
Turbo”s still need to breathe!  I don’t know really know if I got any more mileage, or power. I don’t ever do the mileage. I know on my Duramax pickups, when the filter is plugged it shows on the restriction gauge, usually halfway.  Once changed I usually get more feel in the pedal and better mileage.

It does not come up the restriction gauge like it was with the cellulose filter.

I think that if it’s not creating a suction hard enough to bring the restriction gauge up, the engine has enough air? And that is good.. As soon as that gauge is coming up with a new filter....it is being starved to a vacuum and restriction is never good. I wonder if it would help the C-13?.... mine is only a C-12, and you are right about 90 degree curves, and piping increase would be good.
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Bill Lampkin

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2019, 02:49:19 PM »
I agree that less intake restriction is better, my point is that the filter minder gauge is really telling us that there is too much dirt in the air cleaner, and its time to change it out, so that dirt doesn't damage the engine. That brings up another issue; with a blue filter, and or less restrictive intake piping, will that allow more dirt to clog the filter before the filter minder reading 'goes up' and you change the filter? Longer interval between filter changes due to less restriction?
2005 Patriot Thunder Lexington, 3 slides
40' tag axle (short wheelbase)
525 hp C13

Dwight Lakusta

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2019, 03:34:27 PM »
The filter minder is not detecting “dirt” it is detecting restriction “vaccum”. Even a dirty filter is ok to use until it starts to create a vaccum, and or restrict flow....that’s what those are there for.
2003 Beaver Marquis Ruby 40, 3 slides, C12, 505HP. Current unit.
2008 Newmar Dutch Star, 40, 4 slides, 8.9 ISL, 400HP.
2000 Monaco Windsor, 40, 2 slide, 8.3 ISC, 330HP.

Doug Allman

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2019, 02:07:05 PM »
Food for thought. I was looking at same change type of air filter than what coach came with until I had a CAT mechanic tell me that if it is under warranty you should not change anything.
I had never looked at it from that view. Was contemplating the purchase of the $400 unit that could be cleaned. Changed that view completely and bought an exact replacement. Have always done oil sampling at every oil change. Will continue that process even though it is a warranted engine, until warranty expires and then as long as I own it.
1991 Beaver Contessa  1994-2012   3116 Cat
2004 Beaver Marquis    2012 - 2017  C-12 CAT
2017 Entegra Cornerstone 45B   600 Cummins

Mike Shumack

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2019, 02:37:07 PM »
On my '05 Patriot (C-13), my filter minder never gets lower than midway in its range, even w/a new filter. Filter minder will reset to zero when pressed, so I know its working. I would love to see less restriction on the intake to my Big Cat.

On my '05 Patriot, the restriction indicator goes into the red after the first full throttle run (with a new air filter).

I read here (and on other forums) that the air filter setup is undersized for the Patriot C13. It was said to go to the bigger (used on Marquis) air filter. That bigger 13" diameter air filter has the same size (5") inlet and outlet as the smaller 11" version, so no new piping is required.

However, I wonder if the inlet routing/piping could be my issue. Maybe it is collapsing under full throttle or just has too many bends in it. I need to do a thorough inspection on this flexible hose stuff.

The air enters at the upper left corner (driver's side) of coach body, (it looks like a flexible square dryer-vent-like hose), runs across to the right side of coach, just above the radiator, then makes another 90 degree turn into the "inlet box" which is attached to the inlet of the air filter.
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder, Vicksburg, CAT C13  525HP, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift

Doug Allman

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Re: High flow C-12 Donaldson P527682 replacement?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2019, 04:08:08 PM »
The turns on any air system, engine or household dryer, household heating duct, etc., will definitely impact the volume and flow. 90 degree turns are the worst and can be significantly helped with 45 degree turns if the room is available to install them. This was also noted on a previous post.
One caution is that on a diesel engine I would recommend all counseling with Dave Atherton on the Ask Dave before you do any rearranging. The coach manufacturer not the engine builder installed the air filter ducting and Dave may be able to shed some insight on how to go about revamping for any benefit. Not always is there a benefit.
1991 Beaver Contessa  1994-2012   3116 Cat
2004 Beaver Marquis    2012 - 2017  C-12 CAT
2017 Entegra Cornerstone 45B   600 Cummins