Maybe the best fix for IDS Frame to Axle leveling system

[Roland DuBree]

The IDS leveling is a nightmare for all that can go wrong between jacks, control boards, hydraulic hoses, etc. and the fear of down jacks that cannot be raised and your stuck! Reading seems to imply that airbag leveling is really a better way to go but it too has control problems and now HWH will no longer retrofit coaches for airbag leveling as they are now pushing their new active-air system.  What are your thoughts on an inexpensive airbag leveling few parts fix?  The IDS system dumps the airbags all the way before the hydraulics. Suppose you just let out enough air in the high side airbags to level it by adding 4 spring loaded switches, one for each 3 way solenoid valve we install in each airbag air supply line. and instead of dumping all airbags we just slowly bleed the air out of the high side airbags by way of the switches that activate the high side solenoid valves to lower the coach till level. With a needle valve on the air discharge port of the solenoid, it can be adjusted to slowly release air till coach is level. If you go too far just refill the bag and do it again. Simple system hardly any parts that can go bad, no fancy controls to go bad or any hydraulic problems either anymore.  Please, comments anyone?  What am I missing for a simple fix?

[Doug Allman]

I do not know if we have IDS system per say but I do know that with the Entegra Cornerstone we have air ride when traveling and basically air left in the air bags when stopping either overnight or in camp. There are also jacks for leveling. When using the jacks you can either let all air out of air bags or leave air inflated. If you leave air bags inflated they tend to loose air over a period of time and coach will begin to feel unstable when person walking thru it, you then have to start diesel to get air back up in bags as there is no air bag monitor system with small auxiliary compressor that keeps air up. (several owners that have purchased Entegras after Beavers are not happy ((saying it mildly)) with this system as they thought it was an air leveling system same as on their Beavers)
If you let all air out of air bags then coach settles down to frame when on jacks only for leveling. The coach is low enough when on automatic leveling with jacks and air in air bags so that getting into the bays with slides out is problematic alone without having it lower when in jacks only position. (For old guys that is)

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Roland,
As Doug noted, the bags will leak down, but not at the same rate, so having to go through the complete procedure each time will be (IMHO) a real PIA. I had this system and had 2 problems and one irritation in 8 years, a bad control panel and a cracked landing pad on the axle. The irritation was that one of the hydraulic lines would leak a bit and trigger the low jack alarm while driving. Hitting the retract jack control would solve the problem for the next 8-10 hrs.  Consider getting a spare control board as that seems to be the most problematic part of the system. Other than that, follow any PM instructions in the manual.
Steve

[Jerry Emert]

I have a manual control system on the jack to axle (SMC/IDS) system that works well.  Still live in fear of a jack not going up or a break in a hydraulic hose though.  I use the air system almost exclusively.  It works OK but doesn't always get it right especially in an "un-level" situation.  I do level with the air manually sometimes and if I leave the HWH system turned it on ( I don't mean on auto level, just on) it seems to maintain air in the bags longer.  I live with it and use the hydraulic system mostly if I need to get under the coach.

[Roland DuBree]

Steve, you may not have to do it every time. Your letting air out on the high side so if air slowly leaks out you might just to leak out some air on the new high side.  This could happen a number of times before the bags bottom out and then you air them all up and start again. My problem now is I have over time rebuilt all 4 jacks but they cannot be reinstalled because of 1. I'm not sure my control boards work and 2. my left front jack mounting bracket needs rewelding to the frame because the jack went down I could not get it up and it banged on the axle while driving and bent the bottom of the bracket away from the frame. so if jack was installed as is the jack does not align to the axle pad. I cost me a fortune to remove and reinstall jacks because of tire removal, etc. It just seems to me if my idea of a fix would work it is a very inexpensive fix. 4 or 5 switches on a plate to relace to control panel, wiring from it to 4 solenoids with needle valves to adjust a slow air release and you have workable air leveling system that has very little parts that can go wrong and no more expensive tire removals. Right now I use air bags up when parking and wood under wheels to level.  I don't notice coach floor movement as we walk around inside.  What seems wrong with my idea?

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Roland,
You could try your approach. Keep in mind that you'd have to figure out the correct inflation for travel mode. IMHO you'd be better off fixing the bad jack. They are probably available from salvage shops such as NW Supply or Visione. Good luck.
Steve

[Doug Allman]

Roland, I would offer you this help if you would like it.
I go right by Quincy on my way to Florida in the fall. I would stop and help you get the tire off, I have jacks and cheater bar or air ratchet with sockets to do this with and have solid hardwood blocking for under frame to make safe to work under, so the bracket can be rewelded to hold the jack. If we have to we can take coach to welding shop and then do this tire removal procedure for them to get at weld area. Or get mobile weld rig to stop by and do weld.
Then we can see whether with all jacks on your system operates as needed. Either find out it does or find what else needs to be fixed and get that corrected so you have an operational system with the least cost involved.
I will be 75 by then but I am fully functional and still do all my own maintenance, just make some groaning noises as I roll out from under a coach now, and have done all of these items since our 1991 Contessa and now even on our 2017 Cornerstone with the 365 and 315 size tires. I have also worked with HWH in Moscow Iowa on jacks etc. so know what they can do.
I would be glad to help out if you would so like to in late October. Let me know. No guarantees but some help to very possibly fixing your system. No cost involved, just help.

[Roland DuBree]

I don't have a bad jack.  All jacks have been rebuilt over the past 3 - 4 years. I believe all are good now., but not sure about controls.  I have never gotten the system to work between jack rebuilds.   First rebuilt left rear, then 6 months later the right rear by a repair shop in KY. Then last July both front by a Hydraulics shop in St. Louis.  Then when the jacks were being remounted the bad left front bracket was found and jack would not line up with the pad and shop was afraid to hammer or bend bracket back to reweld to frame at bracket bottom.  They tried to test the control system with jack off but it would not work.  Thought maybe because after air dump and before actually leveling the 4 jacks are supposed to go down and just sense a touch of the axel and with Jack laying on the floor no sense and all stopped. Then I don't remember but I don't think jacks would retract.  So for fear of them going down and not being able to go up all were removed and lines capped so I could drive coach in safety and not break something else. I guess after 3 - 4 years of trying things and nothing gets working right I'm sick of the system and am looking for a small parts, less complicated, keep it simple system.  You mentioned getting airbags back to a drive condition pressure. I thought when I turn the engine back on to drive away the air compresser would just come on and automatically fill up the airbags to proper level based on the one front and 2 rear level sensors and when done I just drive away.  You don't think it would work like that?

[Roland DuBree]

Doug, Thanks for the great offer. Will keep it in mind. Guess I'm like you been fixing things myself for years but now at 88 I find it more difficult to do anything and I hate it.  At any rate if you go past here in October stop or call.   We have a small campground on Lake Talquin south of route I-10 and Quincy,  FL.  Maybe by then I will have tried out my idea or just given up on a fix. Leaving the airbags up and rolling onto a few 2 X 6 boards isn't too much to put up with.  Might just try putting 2 solenoids on each airbag, one to let air out slowly and the other to put air in.  With 4 spring toggle switches on a control board that were center off and spring return both ways I could either air out or in to level.  Just have to do 2 at a time. Both front, both right, both rear or both left to not twist the frame. Still few parts 16 solenoids for the 8 airbags and the new control board and a few wires to solenoids.

[Steve Huber Co-Admin]

Roland,
You are correct re travel height as long as you install your additions between the air tanks and the height control valves (1 controlling front bags and 2 controlling rear bags).
Steve