Turn Signal Indicator glows dimly

[Bill Lampkin]

When one is on the road, small stuff drives you crazy. So my right turn indicator lamp glows dimly when the clearance or headlights are on. Not a big deal in and of itself, but, after an indeterminate period, the warning chime goes off and won't quit warning me. Its the same chime you get when you leave your turn signals (or high beams) on too long. Two questions; Why is the right turn indicator lamp on dimly (the left turn indicator lamp is off) and how do I remove the indicator lamp holder from the rear of the dash panel. Seems like its in a turn to remove socket, but I haven't figured out the secret to removing the indicator lamp holder.

Fair winds and calm seas!
From the great Pacific Northwest 

[Mike Shumack]

I had my dash panels out when I had them refinished (Hydro dipped). In the photo below (and the closeup) you can see one of the dash warning light clusters. The bulbs are in a socket that just pushes into the holder/hole in the cluster assembly. It is just friction fit.

The bulb itself takes a quarter turn into the "socket" (my terminology may be off - I'm calling the "holder/hole" the part you see on the outside of dash with the colored lenses or indicator symbols) . So just grab the socket and pull it straight out of the holder.
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Your problem sounds like you are getting a back-feed to the turn signal indicator bulb. I would remove the Chime module first to rule that out (its easiest to get at).
Does the turn signal indicator flash at normal brightness when your using the turn signals? Do all the exterior turn signals and marker lights work?

[Bill Lampkin]

Thanks for the tips and photos, Mike. I pulled the socket out this am, and bulb and socket look fine, still glowing with turn signal off. L&R indicators are equal in brightness and all turn signals work. Did you find the chime thingy when you pulled apart your dash? I don't know what it looks like or where it is behind the dash. Your 'exploded view' photo of your dash apart gives me pause.......!

I haven't found a wiring diagram yet that can lead us to the chime module or to the truth.

thanks Mike!

[Mike Shumack]

The chime is located right next to the diagnostic plug. It looks like this;

[Mike Shumack]

I was thinking about your dim bulb issue, and looking over the wiring diagram I have for the 2005 Patriot, unfortunately it doesn't show where the dash turn signal indicators tie in to the circuit (they don't even have a detailed diagram for the turn signals). But we can still try to divide the circuit and eliminate a few things. You want to unplug the Chime module to see if that stops the dim bulb. If not, plug it back in and then pull the turn signal flasher, see if that shuts off the dim bulb. Also you can pull the stop/turn bulbs from front and rear (check and clean those connections).

Usually when one bulb glows dim (on a bulb that should not be On) it is indicating that you have a bad ground somewhere, and the circuit is "back feeding" to ground through that dim bulb. There are a lot of places for a bad ground, so pulling the flasher or chime is a good starting point to start tracking the path (note that if removing the part stops the dim bulb that doesn't mean that part was bad - it may just be in the path the circuit is using to get to a ground). But it will help narrow it down.

I color coded the brake/turn signal diagram to show the normal patch of power flow, but without knowing where the dash indicator lights tie in, it will take some exploratory work to figure out.

[Bill Lampkin]

thanks Mike, I found the dim bulb, ME! Kidding; Last year I replaced the flasher, no change. Checked the bulbs then, all ok, no change. I did measure voltage today with headlight switch on-the turn indicator showed 3.8vdc.
I will try removing a turn signal bulb one at a time to see if I can find anything. I expected to find a corroded bulb socket when I checked last year, but all are clean as a whistle. The wire loom under the dash is zip tied pretty tight, I'll have to do some cutting with the d**es to free up the chime from the loom.

Mystery......

[Mike Shumack]

I don't think the Chime module is the problem. One thought, the diagram for the headlights shows they are ground at the "grounding bar". The only grounding bar I know of is the one under the dash next to the diagnostic connector. That would be a silly place to run the headlight grounds to (as its a long run from the headlights), but it would still be a good idea to check all those ground wires to make sure the "screw" for each wire in the grounding bar is tight. YTou can just see the grounding bar in the photo below (to the right of of the diagnostic connectors/test button and Chime module)

 
[Warning - Rant starting] 
I wish I could find a good wiring diagram for our Patriots. I bough the Wiring Diagram book ($125) but it's a real disappointment. I also have the 2005 Monterey diagrams too but they're the same as the Patriot (with regards to the information provided).
The Patriot Wiring Diagram book has like 10 pages of the 120/240ACV stuff (a page on each floor plan even when its the same diagram) and 3 pages on the mirror wiring, but no headlight diagrams, turn signals, dash wiring, etc. All the "useful" coach/chassis diagrams are omitted. In contrast the 2006 Patriot wiring diagram is really good - but that was the year they changed to multiplex so it doesn't help us.
[end Rant]

[Bill Lampkin]

Yep, I'll check the grounds, and I'm with you on the diagrams. Maybe BCS has the real thing and can be persuaded to run off a copy.