Author Topic: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE  (Read 3421 times)

D. Wendal Attig

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ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« on: September 03, 2019, 12:46:53 AM »
Was coming down a 6 mile long 6 percent grade today and doing like I normally do: slow to 45mph at the top of the hill, activate the engine brake, and proceed, ocassionally tapping the brake pedal if speed increases beyond 45mph.

This seemed work normally, until several similar grades later, and I noticed the ABS light come on.

I then noticed restricted accelleration at take off /ramp up speeds. Also in monitoring  TPS and temp, the inside dual on the passenger side began to warm up and showed eventually 25 lbs of in increased pressure 129 psi and temps in the 130 ยบ range which is almost 20 higher than typical.

As an aside, we joined a 10 mile procession of slow/no go traffic at some point in our decent which inched along for almost an hour. Engine and tranmission temps remained normal.

When stopping for the day, I released some pressure from the tire-- down to the normal run temp of the others.

I have read that if the ABS is malfunctioning the system will revert to normal braking which I prefer, but doesn't seem to have been the case today.

More mountainous terrain for 40 miles tomorrow. Any thoughts on what I could check since I'm in a small town, why this condition might have occurred, and how to avoid it in the future.

P. S, new brakes, rotors and tires just installed about 400 miles ago.

Thanks for your help.

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 02:03:25 AM »
Wendal,
Assuming you had inflated the tires to same PSI, the inner dual PSI increased due to the increased heat. Letting air out only insures you will have a low tire when they all cool down, which in turn, can lead to increased temperature.
Steve
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Fred Brooks

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Re: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2019, 02:29:32 AM »
    Wendel,  sounds like your passenger caliper is not fully releasing. Did the company that did the brakes understand the proceedure for greasing the caliper then push the grease out and also use a clay based grease? If the caliper is dragging, that will raise the temp and air pressure easily 30-40 psi. Fred
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Bill Sprague

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Re: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 02:47:06 AM »
A long time ago my ABS light was flashing and the Monterey was not accelerating normally.  Lots of attention was paid to the ABS light.  The problem turned out to be a fuel filter.  As the engine tried to suck up fuel it was restricted so, derated.  The derating sent a "shock wave" down the drive line and the ABS sensor "felt" it.  Changing the fuel filter stopped the ABS light from flashing.  (The trouble shooting and filter replacement was done in a Cummins shop at my expense.  It took them six hours to decide to change the filter!)

You have so many other things going on in your post, I don't have any way of knowing if my fuel filter story is relevant.  The ABS light might be a distraction from something else that is going on.
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Dave Atherton

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Re: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 02:37:55 PM »
Bill,  you are so correct in that statement. Unless I can look and see a big hole in the engine
Block and oil all over the ground. Than I would rule out troubleshooting the fuel system.
Not to be funny several years back on this forum Dave called attention to membership (air
entry into fuel system before the fuel transfer pump ). Incorrect fuel filters etc. than we
Talked about service repair shops mis-diagnosis repairs deep within the engine only to find
out the problem located with the fuel system before the engine. Fast forward today I find
At least 80 % on most repairs start at the fuel system. Air , dirt , aftermarket fuel filters
fuel lines etc. first thing driver complain low power, engine heating, injector failure end result
after many unnecessary parts and labor again problem is in the fuel system. At my diesel
seminars Dave spends lot of time over and over , most all problems are minor in nature
With your Diesel engine and diesel fuel related. Thank you Bill bringing up that point.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic

Gerald Farris

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Re: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 07:03:18 PM »
Wendal,
Steve is right in that you should never release air from a hot tire to get it down to the proper cold inflation point.

When it comes to your brake problem, you did not say if you have a Patriot that has hydraulic brakes or a Patriot with the Thunder option that uses Meritor ADB brakes in 2002. If you have a Thunder, the statement by Fred in that the proper grease and procedure are mandatory to prevent a brake from dragging is correct. However, if you have the standard Patriot, the hydraulic calipers can not be lubricated with grease, so it does not apply to your issue. The hydraulic brakes usually have a dragging problem from a sticking caliper piston or high friction from the caliper slides.

The issue that you describer sounds like an overheating brake, and it should be checked at the nearest available repair facility if you do not feel comfortable in doing the repair yourself. The ABS light is usually triggered by an overheating brake because it melts the sensor, and if the brake is dragging that bad, it will destroy itself in a few hundred miles. Just remember that just because the brakes are new, it does not mean that they are operating properly.

Gerald   
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Bill Redwine

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Re: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 10:02:43 PM »
Put new brakes on my 2001 patriot. Rotors showed severe heat cracks so replaced rotors, Calipers and pads. Checked rotor temp with heat gun after short drive found  thick paint on rebuilt caliper slide causing insufficient clearance and caliper to bind also Tpms showed inside dual to be 150 degrees. Not sure what temp should be but they should be fairly even side to side. Just my 2 cents

D. Wendal Attig

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Re: ABS AND ENGINE BRAKE
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2019, 12:37:42 AM »
Gerald,
Before we continued, I had an experienced mobile mechanic check this. He discovered the melted ABS sensor on the right rear. It was loose at the mount which would indicate to me that it was not reading right initially after the brake replacement. He checked for signs of overheating, discoloration of the rotors, etc and found none. The abs sensor was removed and we continued without any overheating or high-pressure indications, but normal readings from the TPMS system. This coach does not have the Thunder designation but does have the Patriot designation. The headquarters for Roberts Tire is here in Mesa where we will be for the rest of this season so I will follow-up with them as a warranty issue. (The brake work was done by Roberts in Show Low) As always, thanks for the words of wisdom.
D. Wendal