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Author Topic: No power to dash when key is switched on  (Read 432 times)

Carl Boger

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No power to dash when key is switched on
« on: November 11, 2019, 01:41:56 AM »
I searched but could not find what I thought was the problem.  I just switched out the power mirrors on my 1998 Patriot Savannah, and when I turned on the switch to check and make sure the drivers mirror worked correctly nothing was working. 

Usually when I turn on the ignition switch the dash warning lights come on and the low air and Jacks down alarm sounds constantly.  Today there was initially nothing no lights no alarms no cranking.

After wiggling the switch a few times I got a one second on one second off type of alarm where I could see the volt meter click on and off about 1/8 of an inch in movement and I could also hear a clicking from some where in the firewall area.  I am not sure what was clicking.  It could be as far over as the switches by the door, or it could be one of the wired switch mounted on the front of the firewall under the outside access cover. I got it to do this a few times trying to find out exactly what was clicking,but after a while all that went away and nothing worked again.

I pulled the connector off the back of the ignition switch and I have power between the Ground wires and the Battery wire.  Had to meet the In-Laws for dinner so I stopped at that point.

Does anyone have a good suggestion of what to look for next?  Can I jumper the wires of the Ignition switch to see if it is the problem?  From memory I believe the wires are labeled Ground, Battery, Ignition, starter neutral switch, and accessory.

I actually replaced the right/passanger mirror yesterday, and everything was normal.  The ignition switch had to be turned on to activate the mirrors, and the right mirror worked correctly.  Today I replaced the left mirror pretty much without incident until I tried to turn switch on.

I really don't think the mirrors had any thing to do with this since they do not have power until the ignition is turned on.  They don't even work on accessory.   So?   Can anyone else suggest what to look at next?   
98 Beaver Patriot Savannah

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2019, 02:35:45 AM »
Carl,
Before doing any other troubleshooting, I'd disconnect the driver's side mirror and see if the symptoms change. Pulling the mirror fuse (if there is one) might accomplish this, but if the mirror wiring is grounding something, it won't show it.
If no joy after disconnecting the mirror, I'd look for a blown fuse or breaker. We have no diagrams for a 98.
Steve
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Keith Moffett

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2019, 10:50:29 AM »
Carl
Had a new Beaver owner with a shorted electrical issue where power had hit ground .  The symptoms were much like yours.  The final solution was replacing the electronic element that jumps across the two small posts on the relay in the front run bay.
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Fred Brooks

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2019, 12:45:47 PM »
   Carl, Not real sure but if you have the ignition switch with the recessed bezel, I would replace it. Purchase with the original Delco Remy switch because the ones Safari installed are notorious for failure. The fact you stated that you got momentary response is a good indicator of your issue. The original was an early 70's pick-up truck. To remove the cylinder and keys, turn the ignition switch to "accessories" put a paper clip into the hole and push the clip in as you turn the key to the left (counter-clockwise). Use channel locks best possible to un-screw the bezel. The replacement will be in the correct orientation to reinstall the cylinder. Fred
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Joel Ashley

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2019, 01:00:18 PM »
Did you check that power is getting to the right side if the solenoid in the electrical bay when the ignition is engaged?  The solenoid is a common culprit when ignition-dependent accessories don’t work.

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Carl Boger

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2019, 02:33:25 PM »
Carl
Had a new Beaver owner with a shorted electrical issue where power had hit ground .  The symptoms were much like yours.  The final solution was replacing the electronic element that jumps across the two small posts on the relay in the front run bay.

Thanks Keith, do you know where to get that element? 
98 Beaver Patriot Savannah

Carl Boger

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2019, 02:51:25 PM »
Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Steve,
I unplugged the drivers mirror from the rest of the electrical harness with no change.  I don't think there is power there until you activate the toggle switch to adjust the mirrors anyway.

Fred,
I plan to unplug the switch from the wiring again.  Can I just make up a jumper wire to go from ground to battery to ignition to see if I get power to the dash again.  Would this hurt anything?  Not worried about replacing the switch,just don't like to throw out good parts.

Joel,
I am not getting power to the right side, and I left out a step where I did change out the solenoid yesterday.  It was on my to do list anyway as old one looked like the origional and was heavily rusted and corrroided.  I replaced it with a new Cole Hersee 24213-BX one that I had ordered to replace it anyway.  There was no change so that leads me to think it may not be getting to there from the switch if I am thinking right.
98 Beaver Patriot Savannah

Carl Boger

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2019, 03:12:03 PM »
Also Fred,

Do you know where to get the original Delco Remy switch.  Is it still supported by GM or would I have to go to NAPA or somewhere similar.  Maybe even one of the places making repro parts for the old trucks?
98 Beaver Patriot Savannah

Carl Boger

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 04:00:02 PM »
OK a quick update,

I went back out with my volt meter instead of just a 12 volt test light.  I was only getting about 5.9 volts out of the batteries, at the chassis batteries, the heavy wires at the front of the coach, and the electrical panel at the solenoid.  I put a jump box on the batteries an immediately had power to the dash.  One problem solved, but the batteries don't seem to be getting charged while plugged in at home.

I put a small battery charger on them and they are charging now.  They are only about a year and half old.  It has not been all that cold here only getting down into the low 30's and at least in the low 50's during the day.  Most days were warmer.

I am still interested in getting a new switch and the electric element just to have.  I don't want to be stuck somewhere because I did not have spares of those items.  So suggestions on where to get them would still be appreciated.

Thanks for everyones help .

Now to find out why it is not charging?
98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
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Fred Brooks

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2019, 06:26:34 PM »
   Carl, Napa or any good parts house can get the Deco Remy switch as it is still available. That ignition switch harness has a ground wire I believe so I would be careful jumping stuff. Check the writing on the wires, they may be identified.
   98 Patriots may not have a dedicated charge circuit to the "chassis battery" The device used back in that era was called an "Echo charger" about 5" by 5" black box with a black wire, red wire and red wire with yellow stripe on it. The way you can tell if you have one and check it is working, plug the coach into shore power, voltage to the house batteries should be 13.5 to 14.2 volts dc power. Once the echo charger sees 13.2 volts for 2 minutes it latches onto the chassis battery and trickle charges it. The battery boost switch on the dash or consol should help get you started. Fred
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Carl Boger

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2019, 10:03:27 PM »
Thanks Fred, that explains a lot.  I have looked for and can not find a 5x5 black box with those wires.  Thought I had it in the front electrical bay, but that one was for the Allison transmission.  Without a dedicated charge line for the Chassis batteries I guess I could just keep a small charger on it while it is parked.  Could probably wire one into the 110 system in the adjoining bay unless you have a better way.  I think I have read that the switch fits a 1972 Chevy pickup so I will start there.  Sure sounds like a spare can not hurt.  Anyone know where to get or what the electrical element that jumps both sides of the solenoid is? 

Thanks for everyone's help on this, breaking it down into smaller logical steps helps.

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2019, 10:26:14 PM »
Carl,
It will be in the rear section of the coach near the batteries. In my 01 it was mounted on the inside of the engine access box in the bedroom. You had to remove the cover to see it. Here is the link to the manual so you have an idea of what you are looking for.  https://beaveramb.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Echo-Charger-OwnerGuide445-0204-01-01.pdf
Steve
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Fred Brooks

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2019, 10:34:04 PM »
   Carl, It is a Cole Hersey continuous duty 12volt Solenoid. Almost all of us out there carry a spare for ourselves or a friend in need. Not really sure if you need a charger on your chassis batteries. I would start with a 2-3 day slow charge to bring it all the way back and then do a hydrometer test to confirm the battery is good. If good, monitor the voltage over time should stay at 12.6 for over a month unless something was left turned on that is drawing it down. Fred
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Carl Boger

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2019, 11:56:03 PM »
Thanks Fred I just replaced the solenoid, I was referring wired in element that bridges the 2 front post?  Thin metal wire with what looks like 3 diodes embedded around it.  Not really sure what it does since the coach wire are directly under it.
98 Beaver Patriot Savannah

Fred Brooks

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Re: No power to dash when key is switched on
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2019, 12:07:06 AM »
   Carl, It sounds like a diode bridge so it will not back-feed the ground? Can you post a picture? Fred
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Proverbs 3: 5 & 6