Author Topic: Electrical issues  (Read 8844 times)

Steve Huber Co-Admin

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2020, 03:23:34 PM »
Marc,
The guide to resizing and posting pictures/photos is located in the Forum Assistance board (members only). It will describe how to post a picture. If you have problems after reading it let me know.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
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2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2020, 05:00:59 PM »
Figured out the photo thing....
98 Patriot Ticonderoga

Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2020, 05:23:23 PM »
Battery separator is new....hoping it is functional, did not test it but I can hear the solenoid close when switch on dash is closed. I believe the battery bank is wired correctly, and the problem is in this mass of wires. The wiring of the start solenoid ( top right in picture) has power coming from the coach batteries. The 200 amp fuses are used more as junctions than as fuses the way it is wired now. Shouldn’t all distribution to inverter, Onan be fused? Engine starter goes directly from batteries to starter, positive and negative, which makes sense. Onan 12 volt power goes to 200 fuse then to salesman switch( that works) and un fused to junction at Onan for starter and electrical distribution on drivers side bay.
98 Patriot Ticonderoga

Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2020, 07:18:42 PM »
Picture of battery bank before I installed disconnects
98 Patriot Ticonderoga

Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2020, 07:27:30 PM »
And trimmed the centre steel battery hold down.....
98 Patriot Ticonderoga

Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2020, 11:04:23 PM »
Eric. After we had an electrical fire ( battery separator melt down) and I began looking for a cause I noticed the board that all this electrical is fastened to is secured with Robertson head screws. That has been my indicator with anything on this coach that has been worked on. Factory used all Phillips head screws and this coach had two owners since new, both Canadians. The heat shielding around the engine has all been replaced and the underside of the bed has been repaired. All of the factory wiring has labels except at this mess in the engine compartment. Will attach picture of after the fire.
98 Patriot Ticonderoga

Eric Maclean

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2020, 02:46:08 AM »
Marc after looking at my set up I see my fuses have been bypassed
(not a good thing so I guess I'll have to get a pair and put them in)
Your fire wall started out the same as mine and would originally have had a big blue diode isolator as Fred said at some point it must have failed and someone has connected the alternator output straight to the chassis battery and are using the battery separator to combine the battery banks to charge the coach batteries.
In the morning I'll try to get a picture up as promised.
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Gerald Farris

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2020, 02:48:20 AM »
Marc,
If your engine alternator has been changed to the standard truck alternator instead of the Duvac alternator that your coach came with, it will not work if you reinstall the diode pack battery isolator that your coach came with. If you need to replace the aftermarket battery isolator that you have, and you do not have a Duvac alternator, my recommendation would be to install a Blue Sea isolator like this one (https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Automatic-Charging-Equipment/dp/B01HJTFDKG/ref=sr_1_46?dchild=1&keywords=blue+sea&qid=1585964324&sr=8-46). It is much more durable, rated at 500 amps, and gives the driver complete control of all function or it will operate automatically, it just depends on how you set the switch at the drivers seat.

Gerald

Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2020, 04:02:40 AM »
Went through the wiring, wire by wire. Solved a couple of mysteries and discovered a few more. Made a drawing and I will attach. There was definitely a previous fire as I had suspected. Found a couple more burnt wires that have been repaired. In the drawing you will see the switch from the dashboard to link the battery banks is connected to another solenoid. I removed this solenoid and tested it and it works fine. When I installed the new separator as you connect the ground you hear it close momentarily. I assumed everything was okay. When I pressed the switch on the dashboard I could here the solenoid operate and assumed it was the new separator....wrong...it was this extra solenoid that was working. The only thing I can think of is that the separator wasn’t working and they installed the other solenoid to link the battery banks. There are also two wires I haven’t been able to trace as you will see on the drawing. Any suggestions would be welcome.    Thanks again.    Marc
98 Patriot Ticonderoga

Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2020, 04:44:03 AM »
Propane detector wiring tied together
98 Patriot Ticonderoga
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Eric Maclean

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2020, 02:12:36 PM »
Hi Marc
1) in your drawing the hydraulic pump wire and the chassis battery leads are reversed the pump and chassis panel should be fused.
2) I don't see a alternator feed line so my guess is that unknown 2 GA wire goes either to the alternator or down to the starter positive terminal where the alternator is also connected.
3) the original boost solenoid is an isolated ground solenoid meaning the activation coil inside is not case grounded and has to be grounded to work.

Marc the battery separator was installed to combine the two battery banks effectively replacing the original charge diode set.
This system should provide bidirectional charging allowing both batteries to be charged by either the alternator or the inverter.
If the electronics in the separator are working correctly every time a charge voltage is present on either side it should connect the two battery banks together.
This can be check by connecting a battery charger to one battery bank at a time and check the voltage on other battery bank to verify the batteries have been combined by the battery separator.

If the boost wiring was connected on the battery separator the original boost solenoid would be redundant.

Hope this helps
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
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Eric Maclean

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2020, 02:32:22 PM »
Marc
Check to see the size of the separator solenoid Do 100 amp or 200 amp if it's the 200 amp you could just move the boost activation air from the old boost solenoid over to the boost wire on the new separator I believe it's the brown wire on the separator then you could remove the boost solenoid and the cables.
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.
The following users thanked this post: Marilyn Ruta

Fred Brooks

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2020, 03:43:30 PM »
    Hi Marc, Thanks for taking the time to generate the drawing. You appear to have a good understanding of 12 volt logic. When I have had to sort out an issue like yours and there are no prints, I do the same as you. First of all, are there 2 different switches on the dash? 1 for "boost" and 1 for battery charging?.
  To try and answer your questions, this is difficult because you don't know how many fingers have been in the pie! but here goes: 2 GA could be the alternator or jacks pump, 12 ga could be the monitor panel, the relay is nothing more than a remote switch from the dash switch. Relay logic is this: #30 is 12 volt power source, 85 is from the switch 12volt, 86 is the relay ground, 87A is normally closed and 87 is normally open. When you activate the switch, 87 sends 12volt to whatever you are trying to activate.
    I would fabricate a 40' jumper wire with 2 alligator clips. If you want to identify a particular wire, disconnect it at both ends and perform a continuity test with a meter then label it. You will sort this out!!!!
   Thanks for the pics of the propane detector. Blessings, Fred
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Marilyn Ruta

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2020, 05:10:07 PM »
Thanks again for all the help, let me know where to send the check. There is only one switch on dash to link the battery banks. 2Ga wire- hydraulic pump has feed from chassis 200A fuse. Assuming only one pump for jacks and slide. Made a long jumper wire yesterday...works great. Unfortunately whoever had their hands in any of the maintenance of this coach, from the wiring, plumbing, flooring, steps, and even modifications to the cabinets should be shot. I will take a picture today of the mess behind the rear control panel....that will be a project for another day. Is the Heart Interface echo charger required as the battery separator serves the same function for charging? If it is required, is there some way to test it as it was a victim of the fire? I have removed the second solenoid and will move switch wire to new separator. Eric..it is 200amp. The propane detector was wired with hot wires tied as shown in picture. I cut one of the hot leads coming out of the wall and only one has power....will investigate more today.
Solar panels....small panel was hooked directly to chassis batteries...is this a good idea or should it have a control or disconnect or something?  2 larger panels were hooked to a control, also a victim of the fire, should I purchase a MPPT controller and wire to coach batteries? I have tested solar panels and they all put out around 20 volts. I will have to find a new location for solar controls as I don’t believe they should be exposed to engine heat. Back at it again today....leaking sewer valve and dripping fittings in the water bay....and yes someone was in this compartment before me and just covered up the rotten floor.....thanks again guys....Marc
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Eric Maclean

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Re: Electrical issues
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2020, 05:47:48 PM »
Marc
It was quite common for the small panel to be hooked directly to the chassis battery the thought being it was of such a small wattage that it didn't require regulation .
As for your main panels I would replace the charge controller with the controller you suggested and think about going with a larger amperage unit to allow expansion of the system( you would likely have to up grade the lead in wires to add more panels or put the panels in series increasing the voltage and there fore lowering the volt drop and amperage they carry.the beauty of that type of controller is it can take in a much higher voltage input and regulate it to your battery voltage very effectively.
The other advantage to the panels being in series is that in low light condition the sum of the voltage from each panel adds so even in low light conditions the charge threshold voltage is acheived much earlier and the charge controller will begin to charge much earlier than if the panels were in parallel. This gives you a longer charging day as apposed to the 3 to 4 hours in the winter you might get an extra 2 or 3 it all makes a difference.
Hope this helps
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.