Author Topic: Magnum chassis axle location  (Read 15809 times)

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2020, 04:42:49 PM »
Lee
I think your right but on these units they are large nuts and bolts instead of U bolts the same bolts I'd have to remove to move the axle I bet there easier to cut them off and replace with new.
Thanks Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Carl Boger

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2020, 04:44:19 PM »
Eric,  I am trying to remove the 2 rear bolts that hold the front axle to the frame on the drivers side.  Like Lee stated to mount the fixed bracket for the Super Steer trim kit for the Safe t plus.  They are not u bolts however, but 3/4 inch bolts about 6 inches long and fine thread to boot.  Take a 1 1/8 inch socket/wrench on both bolt and nut.  I have got the bolts to slip a tiny bit in the holes, but the nut has not yet broken loose at all. 

Trying to be patient.  Lots of pb blaster, propane torch at 5 and 10 minute intervals, and a 3/4 inch impact.  Going to work on it a few more days this way.  Then will borrow a 1 inch impact, or buy a long 3/4 inch breaker bar.  I didn't want to push my  24 inch 1/2 inch breaker bar any harder.  Bolts go up from the bottom and are to long to clear the I beam on top.  It would be hard to cut the top nuts off because of limited access.  Failing all that I will see if maybe some of my trucking friends can throw some of their expertise to the situation
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
330 hp Cat 3126

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2020, 05:27:33 PM »
Carl
Just took the measurements and here's what I found.
From the front of the rear air bag frame that runs across the coach to the rear of the caster block which is between the I beam and the axle is 20 1/8" the block itself is 7 3/16" and the distance from the caster block to the front air bag cross frame is 20 1/8"

The distance between the face of the tire and the rear inner fender is 2 1/2" and the distance between the front of the tire and the inner fender is 4 1/4"

Question for you is front the rear air bag frame to the front air bag frame what is that measurement .
And did you measure to the caster block or the axle bolting flange.

On my coach if you stand back and look the front wheels are visibly not centered in the wheel openings being back approx 2 inches
By doing the math I come up with moving the axle ahead 7/8" would make the for and aft clearance equal but I don't think that's enough to allow a one inch taller tire height or a little bit better than 1/2" radius And 3/4" wider at the tread so 3/8" per side of centre so when turning that comes into play as well.

The 275/70R22.5 tires are 1.1 inches taller
                                                 .79 inches wider
                                                3.46 inches larger circumference
                                                 .55 inches taller side wall

With that said maybe it would work

Carl thanks for your help
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2020, 05:42:29 PM »
Carl
I looked at the bolts in mine and resolved myself to the idea that I would use a reciprocating saw to cut them and replace them with nice new expensive ones
I thought I would use the reciprocating saw to cut them in the open section of the I beam where they are accessible.

If yours are rusted or seized that bad I don't think a propane torch is going to do the trick your going to need to get them red hot and that will take an oxy acetoleen torch or an induction heater and you likely destroy the fine threads in the process .I think I'd just cut them off and get new ones and save myself the trouble of all the heating and beating.
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Carl Boger

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2020, 07:55:37 PM »
Eric,

I just went out and remeasured everything in much better lighting conditions.  I measured from the air bag frames to the axle flanges and this time clamped on a straight edge to get the most accurate reading.

The distance between the two air bag frames is 47 7/16 inches.  From the rear air bag frame to the axle flange is 20 3/4 inches.  From the front air bag frame to the front axle flange is 20 1/8 inches.

The space from the rear of my tire to the plastic inner fender is 2 5/8 inches,  from the front to the inner fender plastic is 2 1/2 inches.  The plastic is flexible though. 

As for cutting off the bolts it is still an option but I would rather not go that way just yet.  I have the bolt that is inside the frame out now.  Once you get that nut to turn the first 32nd it is easy.  The one closest to the drivers side is still fighting.  It does rotate some in the hole and tighten the wrench against the frame but the nut is still holding fast.  I really need a larger air source.  I get a few seconds out of the compressor and then it is airing back up.  My larger compressor is probably 200 feet of air line away so I think it will drop the pressure just getting to the impact.  I'll get it!
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 03:24:45 PM by Carl Boger »
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
330 hp Cat 3126

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2020, 08:29:02 PM »
Carl
Your in the same boat I'm in I'm about 200 feet from my garage as well .
I have a Small 1/2 cordless impact that I use to put the wheels on and off with that is capable of well over 500 ft lbs
I figured I'd use it .

As for yours you could try thermal shocking them by bringing them up to red hot and quenching them to help break the rust free.
Or you can take two large hammers set one up tight against one side of the nut and beat the other side with the other hammer
Apart from that some lock tight products require considerable heat to release and then there's always a 3/4 " Johnson bar and a 6 foot price of pipe.

Now I'll go redo my measurements and check back with you later
Thanks again
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Carl Boger

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2020, 09:18:15 PM »
Thanks Eric,

I just broke my 1/2 inch breaker bar using a 5 foot cheater.  Heard the snap knew it would be good or bad.... it was bad.  I switched out to my big compressor and the longer lines. Maybe more constant psi will help.  Will try the hammers, I can clamp one in place and maybe get a swing from the other side.  The next time out I may heat up the nut and then hit top of the bolt with a can of freeze out.  if one gets bigger and one gets smaller maybe it will let go.  Let me know if you need any more measurements, it s hard to see under there in certain circumstances but I'll be glad to help you get your axle dialed in.   
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
330 hp Cat 3126

Carl Boger

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2020, 11:12:02 PM »
Just to update my unintentional semi hi jacking of this thread.  The bolts are out, the bracket is on and the bolts are back in and tightened.  Only took me a day and a half!  CRC freeze out followed by more heat and the last one finally gave up.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 03:26:17 PM by Carl Boger »
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
330 hp Cat 3126

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2020, 02:27:09 AM »
Carl
After remeasuring mine I have 20 5/16 between the rear beam and the axle flange
And 20 5/8 between the front beam and the axle flange.
The axle flange is 6 1/2
When totaled up equals 47 7/16 between the beams

From your measurements it looks like your axle is only 1/2 an inch farther forward than mine
I assume you have the 295/70R 22.5 on there right now it would appear that both coaches have somewhere around 43 5/16
My 255/70R 22.5 tires are 36 9/16 tall and the 295/70R 22.5 are 38 3/16 and the tires I want to run are 275/70R 22.5 are
 37 11/16 inches tall.
So I'm looking at moving the axle ahead 1/2 an inch to match yours.
Now all I have to do is get those pesky bolts out. LoL

Could you do me a favor and get the numbers of your front wheels they're probably accuride wheels I just want to compare the wheel off set to see if Beaver changed the off set to help aleviate the rubbing on turns.

Thanks for all your help
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Carl Boger

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2020, 02:32:18 AM »
I have the 275-70 22.5's on there now.  I believe a prior owner had the 295's on it.   I changed all the tires last year at a friends trucking Co.  Thank God for good friends! I/ he changed the tires, air bags, and in my case 6 shocks.  Two that I now believe were added after it left beaver, but they did a professional job adding them.

I will be happy to look for the numbers, any idea where they are on the wheels?  Mine are alcoa?  aluminums.
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
330 hp Cat 3126

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2020, 03:30:50 AM »
Carl
The tires that are on it now 275/70R 22.5 don't rub on turns do they ?
The 295/70R 22.5 must have rubbed pretty good when it did was the rubbing just on the rear inner fender or the both front and rear

The shocks from what I understand was another change that Beaver adopted over time my coach only has one set of shocks on the front approx the centre of the I beam the problem they had is that with only one set of shocks they bad to be fairly heavy shocks in this case the same part number Bilstein shocks they used on the rear axle which carries twice as much weight.
The problem was that in order to line the shocks up with the lower I beam of the H frame the upper shock mounts had to stand off the upper frame rails about 6 or 8 inches and the foot print of the standoff bracket was only about six inches with two bolt about three inches apart which caused frame to crack through the bolt hole from the flexing caused by that long stand off
Bad design.
From what I've gathered Beaver had a retro fit procedure to change it to four shocks and you can chime in here if I'm wrong here but I understand they eventually moved the shocks out to the ends of the I beams closer to the air bags.

Thanks again Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Carl Boger

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2020, 03:59:36 AM »
The 275-70's don't rub, or if they do it is very minor.  I have never heard or noticed it. 

I have 2 shocks in line with the front wheels but outside of the wheels and two in front of them and inside the wheels welded to the cross member.  The shocks in line with the wheels are the eye type shocks.  The ones in front have a top stud and on mine are Monroe HD truck shocks. 
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
330 hp Cat 3126

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2020, 02:50:23 PM »
Carl
When it had 295/70R 22.5 on it was there any rubbing up front or just in the low inner section of the rear in front of the air bag.
The reason I ask is I'm wondering if there is room to move another 1/4 of an inch or so as the 295/70R 22.5 are another inch taller. The thought was if it didn't rub the front inners with them on there may be room to move another 1/4 to 1/2 an inch forward

It sounds like your coach was one of the ones that was retrofitted with the second set of shocks.
It would be nice to see some pictures of the placement of the second set as my coach only has the one set a d has had to have frame damage repaired already it seem that if they went to two sets then the shocks would have to be as aggressive taking some of the stress off of the mountings. Did the and on shock mounts look like factory welds or aftermarket and are the add one mounted with angle iron brackets or something different.

How did you make out with your second bolt I got thinking last night about your situation you may want to try a cheap torque multiplier from harbour freight to get that extra torque you need to break them loose they also work well for wheel nuts .

Thanks Eric

1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.

Carl Boger

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2020, 03:19:30 PM »
Tires only rubbed in the back at the air bags, but did rub all the way through the rubber.  The fronts do not look like they ever rubbed.

 I will get you some pictures of the shock mounts.  The mounts look factory made, Bottom mounts are bent to shape and then welded to frame but but a good fabricator could have done them.  Some of the welds look great, but one or two are kind of sloppy.  I  guess that two welders may have been involved, sure looks like the work of two different people.

Persistence paid off with the last bolt.  I got both out put the bracket on and put both back on.  I had a can of CRC freeze off laying around.  Sprayed it on per the instructions 3 times and tried to break the bolts loose and failed.  Went back to heat and the bolt broke loose first try.  Glad that part is done with.  I could really use a pit to work under this thing, but I guess I will be crawling under it for quite a while.
Carl

98 Beaver Patriot Savannah
330 hp Cat 3126

Eric Maclean

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Re: Magnum chassis axle location
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2020, 03:43:16 PM »
Yeah a lot would be nice I use blocks and or heavy jack stands.
I wish I could take it back into where I worked we had several set of heavy truck lifts which were comprised of four portable almost forklift like hydraulic units which you wheeled into place one under each wheel .they were all wired together and work together each corner has an 18,000 LBS lift capacity making lifting the MCI and Prevost bus a piece of cake the best part was you could put them up 6 feet in the air and walk around underneath them.
God I'll miss those things LoL.
Eric
1997 Patriot Yorktown
3126-B
2009 Chevy HHR
Roadmaster falcon tow bar
Demco Air Force one tow brake.