Author Topic: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time  (Read 5397 times)

Mike Shumack

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I'm replacing the basement compartment door lock motors. I did replace two last summer but at the time I was told the "gun style" actuators are no longer available so I had to get a different style and modify the mounting. I have a thread on that project here somewhere.

It turns out the gun style are still available so I bought six, and started to install them today. Every door on my Coach has the actuator seized.

If they seize in the locked position you can not unlock the door (even the key wont work to unlock it). so I removed the lock actuators from the front Elec bay door and the AquaHot compartment. I just leave those locked, and I'll just use the key if I need access. I don't want to risk having a bad door lock actuator relay and then not being able to open the Electric Bay door to get to the relay.

Here's why I'm posting.
<start of rant ... ::)
Why Beaver didn't you cut the opening in the door panel large enough to remove the door lock actuator/motor?
Come on... anyone assembling this Coach could see there was a problem and it would have been an easy fix then. And to make matters worse, the inner panel is riveted to the door frame so you can't easily cut the opening larger. There was no reason for this oversight.

You can see (photo below) the extra work someone did to cut the panel around the lock actuator - instead of just making the rectangular opening a little bigger which would have been less work for the assembler. It took twice as long to replace these door lock actuators since I had to cut every opening to get the old parts out. Jeeze.
End rant >

I feel better now.
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David T. Richelderfer

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 07:42:52 PM »
It seems like everytime I tear into something (and not just Beaver, also Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, lawnmowers of all makes, etc.), it appears the design engineers haven't or can't pass Engineering 101.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, Mike.
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Peter and Connie Bradish

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 08:35:01 PM »
Welcome to RVs. We all have been complaining about this for years. We have a 1993 which we bought in January 1997. It appears the way they assemble the coach and how it all fits together is for their convenience. Little or no thought is put into HOW will something be worked on in the future. While Beaver (the original company) owned the business they finally had a committee of Beaver owners who interacted with Beaver about how things were arranged and how the coach could be worked on. Mandy Canales and Wally Schmidt were on that committee. Beaver was getting better all the time due to the work of the committee. Then Beaver went bankrupt, was owned by others and well Beaver owners were back to - you get what they build. Even when Monaco owned Beaver and had the once a year - listen to the ladies meeting - nothing seemed to get better.  Hence the creation of the BAC Forum for owners to help other owners.

Gerald Farris

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 10:20:04 PM »
Mike,
It is not just coaches and US manufactured cars. It is all manufacturers. The door access opening probably fit very well on a coach several years earlier, and since the inner panel would still fit the door even though the actuator moved due to a parts change, the coach manufacturer saw no reason to change the panel cutting jigs and/or procedure. After all, they were not planning to work on it.

In my previous life I worked at a GM/Nissan dealer, and the year that I retired, Nissan came out with a new Minivan. The procedure required to replace the A/C pressure hose (a fairly common failure) as per the service manual is; step 1. remove the engine, and there was no other way to replace it. The manufacturer saw no reason to make the hose a two piece hose that could be replaced in 30 minutes because the hose went in with the engine and a two piece hose would have added another step in assembly. The end result was that it simplified assembly even though it added thousands to the lifetime maintenance cost. Over the 40 years that I worked on cars, I saw many such "engineering" works of art. If it is not in the manufacturer's best interest, they are not going to change it. 

Gerald

Bill Lampkin

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 11:12:22 PM »
Snowflakes; No issue when BCS replaced all my actuators.

Mike, Note that the mechanic used a small blac ty rap to secure the linkage
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Mike Shumack

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2020, 11:55:33 PM »
Thanks again Bill.
I believe you showed me that trick in the first "door lock actuator replacement thread".

Lee Welbanks

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2020, 04:02:00 PM »
Talk about engineer's not knowing what they design and want the tech's to install and make work. On my 06 Patriot Thunder the utility bay door doesn't swing open it moves out and up, it has to gas struts on it to be able to lift it. A couple years or so ago I had trouble with the door locks, had on that the cheapo rod they install fell off the actuator and I could not unlock the door, even with the key. I had to go to the door next to it and remove the latch post from that side to get the door open. Now back to that very large utility door, if on that door if the latch goes south for any reason there was no way to get that door open because you can not get at the inside of it and the swing arm mounts are inside. To solve this I removed the latch post from the top of the door so now you can not lock it. Some in here were worried that the door would open going down the road, hasn't happened in 3 yrs, it take a real good pull to get it to start to lift.

Stan Simpson

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2020, 12:11:29 AM »
Mike,
Exactly what I experienced last November when all of my actuators froze up. I had to drill out each lock resulting in 9 new door latch assemblies. The two curbside bay doors that open out make the cargo bay accessible from either one, so I didn't have to drill that one. I changed all the door latches, and actuators. I'm a certified expert on how those suckers go together, and what makes each component work!
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Mike Shumack

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2020, 03:33:20 PM »
Stan, do you have any of the old locks laying around? I have a couple of compartment latches that are missing the little "circular spring" that moves the lock arm to the release position. If you have any parts I would like to buy them from you.
Mike

Bill Lampkin

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2020, 03:42:59 PM »
Tri-mark will sell you parts for the latch, I  had to buy some lock cyls, springs, and other when I broke off the key in the lock. Fun learning all about the intricacies of these latches!
2005 Patriot Thunder Lexington, 3 slides
40' tag axle (short wheelbase)
525 hp C13

"Goin where the weather suits my clothes..."

Mike Shumack

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2020, 03:47:48 PM »
Okay. I looked at the Trimark website and did not see a parts breakdown. Do I need to call them or am I looking in the wrong place?

Here's what the spring looks like.

Bill Lampkin

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2020, 04:02:08 PM »
Yup, Give Tri-Mark a call, the gal I talked to was very helpful. And the parts came quick!
2005 Patriot Thunder Lexington, 3 slides
40' tag axle (short wheelbase)
525 hp C13

"Goin where the weather suits my clothes..."

Stan Simpson

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2020, 12:15:34 AM »
Stan, do you have any of the old locks laying around? I have a couple of compartment latches that are missing the little "circular spring" that moves the lock arm to the release position. If you have any parts I would like to buy them from you.
Mike

Yes, I saved all of the old parts. Show me a picture of what you need, and I'll send them to you. Also, as info, don't re-assemble without those little black nylon ultra this washers. The locks won't work without them. Sad to say, I could not find 9 chrome plated ones that were original. Tri-Mark no longer makes them in the old style we have. I had to put all black ones on. BCS had them, but they wanted $115 a piece for them. Ouch!

If anyone knows where to get some, at a more reasonable price, I'm interested.
Stan Simpson & Becky Glover & Moe the cat
2005 Monterey Laguna IV
C9 400 Cat
Honda CRV toad

Mike Shumack

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2020, 01:13:12 AM »
Hi Stan,
the little springs I need are shown in the photo a couple of posts up.

One end of the spring fits into a hole in the arm/linkage that the lack actuator rod goes into. There is one of these circular springs in each lock mechanism. I'm missing two.

The spring looks somewhat like in the photo below. I was not sure what the name of this spring type was until now - it is a torsion spring.

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Re: I love beaver - but it could have used a little more design time
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2020, 02:52:59 AM »
I have those, Mike. I will mail them to you. (2 of them)
Stan Simpson & Becky Glover & Moe the cat
2005 Monterey Laguna IV
C9 400 Cat
Honda CRV toad