Author Topic: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV  (Read 870 times)

Bob Disney

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Thanked: 8 times
Unfortunately I am getting a chance to find some of the dark side of our Beaver
There was a leak coming from the fan /power steering  pump I noticed as I was looking around under the coach (replacing the dip stick tube as the other had melted )  It is time for a oil change so I took it in for service. After taking the pump off to get it rebuilt I was informed that there were no parts available.
 I did some searching on this forum and am totally surprised at what I had read. $$,$$$.$$ or more
Also possibly a 16 week lead time
I'm sure there has been no service to the system so a good flushing new fluid and filter are in order when going back together
It doesn't seem to be that rare of a problem. I'm looking into a rebuilt unit of maybe a salvage yard take off.
Is there a better solution?
Bob
2005 Monterey Ventura IV
400hp C9 Cat

Steve Huber Co-Admin

  • Administrator Group
  • *
  • Posts: 2698
  • Thanked: 1832 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2020, 02:30:52 AM »
Bob,
I'm way out of my depth here but is that pump built in Italy and the MFGR only makes a couple of production runs per year. If so is it possible to replace it with a different pump? Might take some mounting hardware mods but could be worth it in the long run if feasible.
Steve
Steve
2015-          07 Contessa Bayshore C9,  400 hp
2013-2015: 00 Marquis Tourmaline, C12, 425 hp
2005-2013: 01 Contessa Naples, 3126B, 330 hp

Bob Disney

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2020, 04:16:06 AM »
I've been online and there appears to be a company in Oregon that builds pumps for this application
Planning on contacting them tomorrow
Pretty interesting as of now
The Beave is in the shop but I have a copy of the build sheet that shows the  model and the serial number
If it works out Ill post the info
2005 Monterey Ventura IV
400hp C9 Cat

Jerry Carr

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 442
  • Thanked: 240 times
  • 06 Pat. Thunder Cat. C13
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2020, 11:50:27 AM »
Bob, I have been down this path a few years ago, because of our extended warranty we did need to wait for the new one it actually took 6 months, not good. On the other hand if you can rebuild or find a used unit I recommend this path. BCS in Bend did find one for us during our failure but as I said our warranty would not allow us to replace with a used pump. I am not sure who BCS used but Ty/Ken offed to have the used pump rebuilt. I remember talking with Dave Atherton about our problem during the Beaver Rally in Hemit, CA.  Dave thought that Cat would have an alternate pump that would work.   
Regards,
Jerry Carr
Past Region 1 V.P.
Entegra Anthem
06 Pat. Thunder Cat C13

Frank Bergamo

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 130
  • Thanked: 21 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2020, 03:39:03 PM »
Bob,
White House Products in the UK is a source for anything hydraulic. Replaced a fan motor on my Marquis, 5 days to get  it. Exact replacement at a very reasonable price.  https://www.whitehouseproductsltd.com/?utm_source=confirmation_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=account_registration&aliaspath=%2fHome
Hope this helps.
Frank & Paulette Bergamo
2019-       : 2007 Marquis Topaz IV  C-15 600 HP Allison 4000
2014-2019: 2002 Marquis Emerald C-12 505 HP Allison 4000
2004-2014: 1986 Executive Diplomat 3208 250 HP Allison MT-643
Grand Junction, CO.

Jerry Carr

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 442
  • Thanked: 240 times
  • 06 Pat. Thunder Cat. C13
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2020, 05:08:43 PM »
Bob you might want to contact White House they may be willing to rebuild your existing pump or at least build a new one based on your existing unit.
This may be the company that was doing the work for Monaco? Our pump was based on a new casting sent to England from Italy and then sent to us from Monaco
Regards,
Jerry Carr
Past Region 1 V.P.
Entegra Anthem
06 Pat. Thunder Cat C13

Bob Disney

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2020, 05:43:37 PM »
Kinda good news,
I just got off the phone with a company in the Bend Or. area that knew just what I was needing.
The way I understand,
John Davis RV has put together a supplier group that builds this pump, and others
The turnaround is 8 to 10 working days if needing to build and some models are on the shelf and ship as needed.
Mine needs to be built.
You can order over the phone with a credit card.
They do sell direct to the customer or to the shop or vendor.
I'm probably stepping on some toes here by buying direct, but it is saving me a big wad of money that will go towards other Beaver improvements.
The warranty will still be in effect if installed correctly
I am bypassing the markup of two different unnamed entities. :-X
This is the same company that builds the wet pump conversion for the pump
Here is the contact information

John Davis RV
52221 Pine Forest Drive
Lapine OR. 97739
www.JDRV1.com 
(541)306-3015
2005 Monterey Ventura IV
400hp C9 Cat

Joel Ashley

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1815
  • Thanked: 614 times
  • OSU Class of '73, Oregon Native. RVing 35 years
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2020, 10:35:50 PM »
Thanks for that information, Bob.  I think the other “entities” in Bend already have plenty of work (and months-long waiting lists) and won’t mind very much your bypassing the middle man to save money and get back on the road, esp. if it’s a retail service open to the public anyway (and I note an FMCA commercial member).  Check if they offer an FMCA discount.

I remember Jerry’s frustration with having only one foreign source for his device, a ridiculously long wait, and no price-competitive option.  Been there regarding a few farm equipment items years ago.  Your discovery will no doubt prove helpful to others here in the future.

Steve, the mentioned vendor should of course be added to our suppliers section.

Joel
Joel and Lee Rae Ashley
Clackamas, Oregon
36.9 ft. 2006 Monterey Ventura IV, aka"Monty Rae"
C9 400HP Cat
towing a 1997 Ford Explorer Limited, aka "Pearl"

Bob Disney

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2020, 03:51:11 PM »
More news about the pump
It turns out the pump had not had the wet pump upgrade which would help with avoiding a recurrence of the failure
so I've ordered it as well as 23-1/2 gallons of fluid. Everything is at the shop except the pump
The pump ships today.
2 weeks and a day since ordered
I'm refilling the hydraulics with the transmission fluid required for a Allison  3000 (15 gallons) for insurance, as well as a full service for the transmission another 29 Quarts.
I'm sure the shop is ready to get me out of there as the Beave has been occupying a bay for three weeks as of today.
More to follow
Bob 
2005 Monterey Ventura IV
400hp C9 Cat

Lee Welbanks

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1018
  • Thanked: 290 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2020, 02:53:36 AM »
Am I missing something here? What is the big deal with this hydraulic pump, is it the one and only one out of a couple million hydraulic pumps out there that will do this job. What is the tag numbers on this pump?
Lee & Judy
Minnie the MiniDoodle
06 Beaver Patriot Thunder
Wilmington IV 40
525 Caterpuller
4000 Allison
Roadmaster Tow
2013 Honda CRV

Bob Disney

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Thanked: 8 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2020, 01:43:15 AM »
I thought it would be easy too
The pump is a Sauer Danfoss 41211
I have a fair amount of time looking, Good Luck

Bob
2005 Monterey Ventura IV
400hp C9 Cat

Mike Shumack

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1621
  • Thanked: 447 times
  • Orlando, Florida
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2020, 12:25:12 PM »

It turns out the pump had not had the wet pump upgrade which would help with avoiding a recurrence of the failure


Is this photo (from the "PTO 101 article" on the Country Coach recall) your setup? Two pumps mounted in tandem.

Regarding the "Wet Pump upgrade", are you replacing the PTO pump too or just adding the second oiling line?
- Mike

'05 Beaver Patriot Thunder 525, Vicksburg, CAT C13, Allison 4000MH, HydraLift
Orlando, FL

Dave Atherton

  • BAC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 939
  • Thanked: 752 times
Re: 05 C9 cat fan and power steering pump failure Monteray Ventura IV
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 07:45:46 PM »
Gentlemen, forgive me but all this hyp pump talk is getting way over my head. Let me start on the hyd pump failure in just how was that bought about. Did the tech install a flow meter into the system and
at same time recording hyd flow and back pressure. There is several areas that can be the problem,other than the hyd pump. Second Rex - Ross is a American company in Iowa and can provide
Or recommend a place that can rebuild hyd pump if needed. My next question is this hyd pump
operation going to a hyd fan motor or tied into a pressure shifting valve spool. We have several entries
in the past with hyd pumps problems and break down in troubleshooting the problem at hand.
Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic