BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Dominic . Sue Ambrosino on August 21, 2020, 09:46:35 PM
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It's time for new batteries. I will be going with AGM's. Looking at Lifeline or VMAX (model XTR6-235 6V). I'm wondering if anyone has recommendations or experience with AGM's and would recommend a specific manufacturer?
2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder
42' Vicksburg
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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The AGM is a good brand, Interstate is also good, take a look at lithium they are more but give you more amps and longer life.
I was told by the Interstate sales person that the Gel Cell they offer is made by the same company as AGM.
Interstate does make AGM batteries as well. They are very high quality, and usually come in at a lower cost per same size battery. They are a popular OEM replacement for factory AGM batteries, and actually act as an original supplier for many brands as well. Interstate also has slightly better warranty coverage for their batteries overall, and with service centers all over the country, you might have easier access to getting a replacement.
If you subject your batteries to harsh conditions, especially ones with high heat and vibration, then the Optima might be better for you. The weight savings is usually an advantage in these high performance applications as well, so these two aspects go hand in hand to make Optima the best pick of the two in those cases.
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I went with Crown AGMs. Good value, American made, and they’ve been in business for 80 years.
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Your V-Max have a pretty good capacity at 235aH. But you pay for the extra 15aH. 220aH is adequate for me.
Although I was leaning toward replacing all my batteries with Costco wet cell Interstates (my original Interstates went 12 years before showing failure signs), I’m now thinking I’ll go AGM’s, and when I researched last fall the best deal was actually at Batteries + Bulbs. They offer a 10% “order online coupon” that takes the price below most others. Unfortunately, Costco doesn’t offer 6v deep cycle AGMs, or they’d likely be the better deal.
I see now that Batteries + has changed some batteries and prices, so you’ll have to do your own shopping around. The specific GC2 AGM I thought I was considering isn’t on the website, and the other options have been shuffled; but pricing seems better. As I recall though, my local store had a other available ones than what was on the website. So I reckon we’ll both be shopping around a bit.
They do have a Crown, like Chuck refers to:
https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sligc2agm
It would be about $258 after the online order coupon code.
Lithium is big bucks and usually means charger modifications and specialized tech labor that add up fast. Although the wave of the future, for most of us they’re not practical retrofits.
I’ll be checking their 31-MHD chassis ones also. Their Duracell’s were on my list, but I may check AGM chassis options there and at Costco too.
Joel
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For what it’s worth, last October I was able to get (4) Crown AGM 6CRV220 GC2 for $914 delivered and then my local auto parts gave me $40 for my old batteries.
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What auto store, Chuck? That’s $118 less (for 4) than Batteries +. Of course, prices may vary across the country at the same retailer.
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Dominic,
What ever you decide, please do not forget to change the charging profile on your inverter/charger. In the owners manuals for the coach components, find the one for the Xantrex. They will advise you what settings to adjust for various battery types.
From a tech's point of view, I would go with the AGM maintenance free batteries for trouble free operation. Over the years I have found that batteries are the number one most neglected support system. Out of sight, out of mind!
This does not apply to us "motor heads" because we love to play and love on our coaches. Hope this helps, Fred
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Life PO4 (lithium) batteries require no special charging method; in fact, a simple bulk charge is all that is required.
See:https://battlebornbatteries.com/charging-battleborn-lifepo4-batteries/
Any modern inverter charger (Xantrex, Magnum) can be programmed to charge lithium.
The cost, I'll grant you, gives me pause, but sooner or later, we will all be using lithium, as it is a superior battery.
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What auto store, Chuck? That’s $118 less (for 4) than Batteries +. Of course, prices may vary across the country at the same retailer.
I just looked at the receipt and it was with High Tech battery and they had a first time purchasing discount of 10%.
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I recently purchased new chassis batteries for the Beaver. I went to Batteries Plus. If you order online and pickup at the store they give you a 10% discount. Plus when you pick the batteries up they will help you lift them and 8D AGMs weigh in at 160lbs each so something to consider.
I replaced the Group 31 chassis batteries with two of their X2 Power batteries (SLI31AGMDPM) 1150A CCA, 220min Res Capacity. I could have spent a whole lot less but I don't like surprises when I go to start the motor. The capacity of these batteries is equvalent to 4D AGMs. The X2 Power 8Ds (SLI8DAGMDPM) 1450A CCA, 500min Res Capacity are pricey $700. Im saving up for 2 next year.
The Patriot came with an all electric option which is basically what I have done with my coach. The difference is like night and day from the old Group 31, 950A CCA that came with the coach.
Battery Options from the 2007 schematics...Dwg 38010781.
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Gary, 160# each? That’s gonna be a challenge for my 4-surgery back! Taking the coach to them is not too viable an option for me as the tray needs refurbishing while empty, and I only trust myself to wire things back up correctly anyway.
The existing wet-cell GC2 (2200) Interstates are only ~60lbs, and the chassis ones ~56lbs. Standard group 31 chassis AGM’s are about 67 lbs. Are our OEM trays gonna be up to that much extra weight? That will also affect my already curbside-heavy weight distribution, and possibly a slight rear tire pressure adjustment.
Their site says the SLIGC2AGM is only 66 lbs. Your 8D’s: they fit okay where GC2 or 31’s do? A bit too expensive for me, and the factory Interstate 31’s have never not started the coach nor needed boost assist.
Joel
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Joel, my main reason for going to AGMs (aside from needing new batteries) was to keep the battery tray looking nice after the refurbishment.
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We switched to AGM about 6 years ago. Don’t recall the brand name but I would never go back to wet cell batteries. Too much maintenance for my preference. The AGM’s have been reliable, maintenance free and much cleaner.
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My Patriot has two battery bays. One bay is a double decker. One 8D fits on the top (House 1) and two Group 31s (Chassis 1&2) fit on the bottom. In the aft bay there is a second 8D (House 2). So each tray is supporting 150-160 lbs of batteries.
Both the house and the chassis batteries were AGM and after 13 years no need to restore the trays they look like new with the exception of some grimy diesel dust.
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Dominic,
What ever you decide, please do not forget to change the charging profile on your inverter/charger. In the owners manuals for the coach components, find the one for the Xantrex. They will advise you what settings to adjust for various battery types.
From a tech's point of view, I would go with the AGM maintenance free batteries for trouble free operation. Over the years I have found that batteries are the number one most neglected support system. Out of sight, out of mind!
This does not apply to us "motor heads" because we love to play and love on our coaches. Hope this helps, Fred
Thanks, Fred. That was going to be my next question, after I chose which brand of AGMs to get-I have a Xantrex Trace Sinewave SW2512 inverter....i'll need to figure out how to change the battery type from lead acid to AGM...are you familiar with that one?
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You change battery types in the setup menu on the remote unit. You enter the setup mode by holding the "up" and "down" keys (the Setup/Menu Items keys) for five seconds, then you toggle through the screens using the setting button till you get to the battery type. To save the new settings, press and hold the "setup/menu buttons" for five seconds until screen clears.
Do you have the manual for the RC-GS/RC7 remote?
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Thanks to all who offered input...We are still checking into the Vmaxx AGM's as Lifeline are backordered for several months.
I'll post what we end up going with when we purchase them. We still have some research to do: 1. how to program xantrex sw2512 trace inverter for AGM batteries 2. Changing dip switches on Solar Charge Controller and 3. Anything else we are not aware of!
I'd love to hear from anyone who has AGM's with the SW2512 Inverter
thanks again....
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Your solar system is probably not much different than ours.
It looks like all you have to do is move dip switch #3 down.
Joel
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The Patriot came with an all electric option which is basically what I have done with my coach.
Battery Options from the 2007 schematics...Dwg 38010781.
I noticed in that attached chart (and other similar battery charts for 2008+ models, that the AGM batteries listed for the House side are all 12V.
Are the 12V AGM batteries "deep cycle". Does it matter with AGM?
My House batteries are (four) 6 volt. Should I consider switching to 12V AGM when the time comes (they appear to be easier to find), or just look harder for 6V AGM batteries?
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Mike, My house batteries are all Lifeline GPL-4DL (4) and they are 12V deep cycle. They are big and heavy, mine are still the originals that can with the coach.
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I think that like wet cells, Mike, the amp/hour capacity of 6v AGM ones are quite a bit higher than 12v AGMs; in most I saw it was about a factor of twice the aH.
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Thanks.
I looked up the Lifeline GPL-4DL. The specs say they are approximately 8-3/4" wide and 21" long. My current 6V batteries are 7-1/4 x 10-1/4.
So one GPL-4DL would take the place of two of my 6V batteries, but I think the extra 1-1/2 width could be a problem (I would need 3" more with two of these batteries side-by-side). It would be a tight fit in my battery tray "if they will even fit". I didn't take any measurements yet, but from visual inspection, I don't think there is enough room.
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About 10 years ago I went to 6 AGM house batteries. In order to fit the extra 2 batts into the compartment I got rid of the battery tray. The end result is having all 8 batteries in same compartment .. No mess .. Not stressing the cables with the in/out .. 50 pounds of metal gone .. No maintenance .. Overall it has turned out to be a positive upgrade.
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That would work with AGMs, since I would have no need to pull the batteries (tray) out to check and add water.
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You change battery types in the setup menu on the remote unit. You enter the setup mode by holding the "up" and "down" keys (the Setup/Menu Items keys) for five seconds, then you toggle through the screens using the setting button till you get to the battery type. To save the new settings, press and hold the "setup/menu buttons" for five seconds until screen clears.
Do you have the manual for the RC-GS/RC7 remote?
Thanks, Mike. Our remote is different, but i think we do have the manual for it.after research (and help from bac!) i believe i need to go into menu 10 to change the battery type.
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Your solar system is probably not much different than ours.
It looks like all you have to do is move dip switch #3 down.
Joel
yes, it looks like our solar panels are the same. we have dip switch #3 up now (for lead acid) and will move it down with the agms.
i can't recall what the power on the solar panels (from factory) are....do you know??? thanks for your help
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Thanks to everyone who took the time to help!
We just ordered 6 VMax Agm batteries from Bargainshore.com.
They were very helpful, had the best price ($277), no shipping, no tax and even gave us a 5% discount off the $277!!!!
Shipping tomorrow, should be here in 4-5 days.
Thanks for hand holding---(This is Sue, Dominic would never have asked so many questions!!!!!!!)