BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Jerry Emert on June 10, 2015, 04:21:43 PM
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Going down a pretty good size hill on I77 in SW VA and the air warning buzzer comes on and I look down and see air gauge quickly approaching zero. Pull over to the side with a very spongy brake pedal. Safe on the side with semis passing about 6 feet away...yay!
Noticed at the last stop that the engine sounded pretty loud. Got under and noticed that the new exhaust pipe had come off the inlet to the muffler. Figured I could fix at next CG. 20 minutes into the trip the air went to zero.
I started the engine and the red needle on the gauge starts to come up the green one doesn't move.
Good Sam called a mobile truck service who is on the way.
Any ideas? Could the extra heat from the disconnected exhaust pipe have done something?
Thanks
Jerry
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The green is your primary tank (most forward on the chassis) and its air goes priority to the rear air brakes, then the front suspension, etc. The red needle reads pressure from the secondary tank whose air goes priority to the front brakes, then rear suspension, etc. When you first start up, the green needle should move up ahead of the red.
The secondary tank gets its air off the dry side of the primary, which is why its needle follows the green one up. It would, therefore, seem unusual for the red needle to show more pressure than the green. There must be a broken air line associated with the primary tank, but allowing engine compressor air to pass through and pressurize the secondary; so hopefully the tow truck's pressure will be enough over the lost air rate to keep the parking brake released (its relayed air comes from the primary tank).
Your braking was spongy because the primary supplies rear air brake pressure; it's likely most of your braking to get off the road here was by way of the front brakes.
Joel
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Another newbie DA mistake. The exhaust pipe came off the inlet to the muffler. The heat was apparently so great that it melted the air lines going to the air line purge assembly. That's why I lost all the air at the same time. Exhaust pipe was just replaced last month. Roadside guy said that they did a crappy job, only put pipe over muffler 3/8s of an inch. He said there was lots more stuff up there that started to melt. The purge panel for the fuel system looked like it almost started to flow. He also said the pipe looked like it hit something so I don't know whether to be pissed at the RV place or call my insurance company. Did the pipe fall off and hit a speed bump or something or did I hit something on the road that I did not see or feel that caused the pipe to fall off? Beginning to wonder if the joys of RVing are for me?
Take care.
Jerry
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Jerry,
Life is an adventure and RV ownership just enhances the journey........ ;)
Steve
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Jerry, I would call your Insurance Company on the heat damage to your air system and get
everything put back to new standard as it came under the Christmas tree. Your are dealing
with air system that could fail ahead or travel in the Mt. The experience of loosing air
and getting off road before your Spring brakes applied ( in heavy traffic you could be left out
in a travel lane.). Today in many cases workmenship has gone south in many places providing
services and it is only getting worse, some things a person will over look but with air system
I would suggest not. Dave Atherton Retired Cat Mechanic
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Jerry, first we are glad you are OK. God watches out for us all seems like. Could have been much worse and good job getting it off the road quickly.
Most of us have felt overwhelmed at times. Problems can seem to pile up.
I would contact my insurance for sure. Sounds like everything is suspect and better off with a good look over in a good shop. Then I would get it all in writing and me and a shop would go to war. You did well but the next person they do this to may not be so lucky.
Hope to see you safe, happy and down the road!
Keith and Carol
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Thanks all for the encouragement. I've got to say that was quite an experience seeing air going rapidly to zero in the middle of a decent down the mountain. Trying to stop with minimal shoulder and a portable "Bump" sign right in the way. I missed the sign and stopped just short of where a guard rail was starting. 6 feet more and I may not have been able to open the door if I got all the way off the road.
Anyway, Dave I will do as you suggest. Keith, I'm not sure how to go to war with the RV shop! you know both the insurance company and the shop are going to claim it's the others fault. Should I just claim it on insurance and let them battle the shop? Never done any of this before. 30+ in law enforcement, lawyers have never been on my side for the most part!
Any advice from those "in the know" would be appreciated. I wish I had thought to take pics of the surprised road crew weed wacking about 100 yards before I came to a stop! I need a dash cam.
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Jerry, if you're fortunate enough to have Overland Insurance Services as your agent (or even if not), give Ron Jarvie a call and get his take on the situation.
http://www.rvins.com/contact.htm
Joel
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Jerry
I believe in giving credit where its due and sometimes when its not. Here is a time I came uncorked as an example.
Some years ago we purchased an SUV. It was as nice as we could afford but well used. The dealership was the oldest in Washington state and supposedly well reputed. I made sure this car was fully serviced and safe for my family. That weekend we headed to Calif. Down I-5 but thankfully the pass was closed so we were returning home. In fairly heavy traffic and at interstate speeds, the crossmember under the transmission hit the ground and was shooting sparks out the back like an arc welder. Gas tanks and fires all came to mind not to mention the poor folks right behind us. We got stopped and I got it removed with no tools.
The dealership offered to let me talk to the sales man, then the sales manager, then the general manager. When I walked un announced into the vice presidents office and dropped 25 pounds of steel on his desk I had his attention and every customer in the place. He didnt know that I had already talked to an attorney. The image of multiple car pile ups and dead families got him up and moving.
Don't let these people take advantage of you. If nothing else, the insurance can guide you and the state has an attorney general for just this purpose.
All the best
Keith
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Absolute number one reason I do all my own coach repairs and maintenance except oil changes and you can bet I check them over real close.
There is no excuse for a exhaust pipe coming loose, I would jam this whole thing down that shops throat as they are the cause of the mess you have now.
And please post the name, address and phone # of the shop that did the exhaust work so everyone else can pass by.
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The shop is Eagle's Pride RV at The Great Outdoors in Titusville Florida. I will be talking to them this week. They have a good reputation so I'll see how they handle this. The part that concerns me is that "I believe" that when the pipe fell off it it the ground. It's got a good size ding in it. They may blame it on me for hitting something causing the pipe to fall off. I didn't hit anything. So my quandry is do I just open up an insurance claim, or just battle with them? Again I have to give them a chance to make it right. I will probably open a claim and suspend it until I know. Thanks for advice and I wish I had the knowledge to do all my own maintenance. I'm learning!
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Jerry,
Even if you had hit something in the road if that exhaust pipe were installed correctly it may dent the pipe but knock it out of the muffler. I've worked on enough truck exhaust and if the pipe is clamped correctly you almost need a cutting torch to get them apart.
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Thank you that helps. The road service guy that put it back together and got the airlines patched up said whoever did the exhaust did a "messty" job. He said that the pipe was only about 3/8s of an inch over the muffler inlet. He put a larger metal clamp kind of thing over the new connection. It reminds me of the bud can I hose clamped over the exhaust pipe in my 77 Trans-Am when it came off a long time ago. You have made up my mind, thanks again!
Jerry
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Jerry, They are called exhaust band clamps, we used to use the stainless ones install and forget but you cannot reuse them.
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That sounds like what the road guy put on. Thanks
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Update: The RV dealer that replaced the exhaust pipe came through. No questions asked and fixed the airlines and a couple of electrical connections that looked a little iffy. The only damage not repaired was the "flowing plastic" fuel line purge panel. Not sure what it's called. Since it wasn't working before I didn't feel right about making them replace it. The name of the facility is Eagle's Pride RV. It is in the Great Outdoors RV Community and Resort in Titusville Fl. I highly recommend them. Thanks again for all your support and advice.
Jerry
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Jerry, looking at your air lines that disformed and melted that was a very wise choice
to make and having repair people stand behind problem makes a happy ending. Air system
with air brakes there is very little room for error other than the spring brakes coming on when
air reserve drops to 50 pounds. Dave Atherton retired Cat Mechanic
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Pardon me if this sounds like a stupid question, but when you say you will take this to the insurance company are you talking about an extended warranty/service contract or do you mean regular insurance? If it's the latter, would you be claiming this under collision or comprehensive? I'm puzzled as to how it would be justified as an insurance claim.
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Joel, when we were stuck along side the road the road service guy said that there was a pretty good ding in the exhaust pipe. I asked him if that is what caused the pipe to fall off the muffler. He replied that he really didn't know but said it was a crappy job that they had done putting the exhaust pipe on because it only overlapped by 3/8s of an inch. He pointed behind us and the shoulder dropped off and there were a few large rocks around on the shoulders. He shrugged his shoulders. If the RV dealer had claimed that the heat damage was caused by me hitting something and knocking the muffler off thus causing the damage, I would have claimed the damage under my collision policy. I really think that the muffler fell off, caused the damage and when I pulled off the road the pipe, which was hanging lower than normal hit something. But the ding gave me another route just in case. Make sense? luckily the RV guy agreed that the damage was caused first by the pipe falling off. What came first? The Chicken or the egg?