BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Stan Simpson on December 16, 2019, 08:55:24 PM
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See the pictures below. If you click on them, they will enlarge.
Today I decided to check the water levels in my deep cell batteries (4). After that, I decided to clean them as the connections had a lot of corrosion. I moved one of them (it appears its the main connection to something as it goes up behind the back wall and back to who knows where) and it broke right at the positive terminal.
Is there a way I can splice a new connection on to the end?
How should I treat the batteries until I get a new connection? Meaning, should I shut them off, or what?
Should I shut them off when I go to uncouple the bad one?
Calling NAPA right now to see if I can get something from them before they close.
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You can take the cable ends done at a Napa. The cable may be corroded inside too far up and just need a new one made.
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I replaced one a few years ago on my ‘97 F-150. I think I got it as Jim suggests, at NAPA. Seems though that it took some effort to properly afix and seal it to the cable. And you may need a large heat-shrink tube... it’s better than tape. And you don’t want to leave yourself short on cable when cutting off or prepping what’s left of the end.
I use battery cable “paint” after regularly cleaning terminals. Some treatments are thick and one I have sprays on thin and runny, so shake or stir well. The runny one is strong smelling and doesn’t dry readily. But they do resist corrosion if thoroughly applied.
I would turn your switches off while doing the repair, and maybe unplug from shore power and throw a tarp over the solar panel.
Joel
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I replaced one a few years ago on my ‘97 F-150. I think I got it as Jim suggests, at NAPA. Seems though that it took some effort to properly afix and seal it to the cable. And you may need a large heat-shrink tube... it’s better than tape. And you don’t want to leave yourself short on cable when cutting off or prepping what’s left of the end.
I use battery cable “paint” after regularly cleaning terminals. Some treatments are thick and one I have sprays on thin and runny, so shake or stir well. The runny one is strong smelling and doesn’t dry readily. But they do resist corrosion if thoroughly applied.
I would turn your switches off while doing the repair, and maybe unplug from shore power and throw a tarp over the solar panel.
Joel
Should I turn off the inverter?
Here are the parts I got from NAPA. 1) a new cable connector 2) 6 inches of cable that I will use to splice on to the broken end of the cable via the 3) 2.0 butt connector.
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Stan,
I would turn off the inverter. When I make up battery cables I use a battery terminal crimper. NAPA should have one or you can get one (Hammer Lug Crimper) on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/s?k=battery+terminal+crimper&crid=125URGCVK22V9&sprefix=battery+terminal+crim%2Caps%2C243&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_211 You might be able to have a battery shop make up the jumper cable so you'd only have to deal with the splice.
After crimping I fill the terminal with solder using a MAP gas torch to ensure a solid connection. As noted in an earlier post, use heat shrink tubing to help protect the terminal to cable area.
That said. looking at the pictures and since you had one cable fail, you should consider having all the battery cables checked and replaced as needed. Corrosion will work its way inside the terminal and up the cable, resulting in failure at the most inopportune time.
Steve
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I agree with Steve's procedure of crimping then soldering, and then protecting with heatshrink tubing. I use a hydraulic crimper like this one (pic below) from HarborFreight that has dies that go all the way down to huge sizes like 0AWG. Then I solder-fill the crimped connection with Sn-Pb solder using a 300W soldering iron (pic also below).
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I have done tons of large cable connections, solder, flux, fuel torch (mapp gas) copper fittings and shrink tube to cover and seal the connection, get the heavy duty shrink tubing with the glue in it and it will seal the connection water tight.
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Thanks for all of the replies and suggestions. Believe it or not, went to two NAPA stores, relatively close by and neither one had a large gauge crimping tool. Will try somewhere else tomorrow.
@Steve Huber. How can I replace the entire cable? I'm in an RV Park until Feb 1st, and the one that is broken off at the terminal goes out of the bay, and I have no idea where. There are no cables that tie the four batteries together that need to be replaced. My idea is to cut back the insulation on the broken off end, put the butt connector on it, and then put the new 6 inch cable I bought in to the other end of the butt connectore. And then put the other end of the new cable in to a new post connector as I show in my picture. That will add 4 or 5 inches to the existing cable. In the meantime, what damage is being done having this battery disconnected? If any? The inverter shows the batteries on float. We are plugged in to 30A shore power until Jan 1, then they are moving us to a 50A site.
Thanks.
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Stan,
You can use a battery jumper cable to temporarily make a connection from the broken cable to the battery terminal while you look for a crimper. Be sure to cut the broken cable back far enough to get to good copper strands with no sign of corrosion. Also make sure the connections are insulated so they can't touch any metal or other battery connections. My thought would be to crimp the new jumper in place and then, when time permits, replace the jumper with a more permanent solution. (Replace cable or get jumper connections solidly crimped and soldered). While not optimal, if the jumper is installed correctly it may last for the life of the coach.
Steve
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Stan, if you have to use the old cable use some metal deoxidizer on it before you put the connector back on. Hopefully that will renew the cable a little and make your connection last longer. If you don't solder the connecter, after the deoxit soaks in put dielectric grease on all the exposed metal before and after you crimp it. Tricks I learned in the Navy working on outside antenna connections. Salt spray is even worse than battery connections.
https://smile.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_16?keywords=wire+deoxidizer&qid=1576557484&sr=8-16
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Wow, great information, thanks all. Back at it today.
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With the slide out battery trays, there is usually plenty of extra cable available (so if you have to cut two inches off the end, worse case, your battery tray just wont pull out as far before the cable slack is used up).
Two important points. IMO.
One - all your terminals look like they need a good cleaning. I would take a photo of the cable connections (mark them as needed "+, -") then remove all the batteries and thoroughly clean the battery terminals, cable ends, batteries and tray with baking soda water mix and small wire brush.
Two - if you install a new battery cable terminal, cut back the cable insulation and be sure the copper is clean. Usually the corrosion will work its way up the cable - so you need to have clean copper before installing the new end. Sometimes you have to cut off a a couple of inches to get to clean copper (so you need a set of cable cutters - like these https://www.amazon.com/TEMCo-Wire-Cable-Cutter-Electrical/dp/B00HJWTBYS/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=battery+cable+cutter+0000&qid=1576595693&sr=8-4 ). Also, you only want to strip off enough insulation so the exposed copper will go down to the bottom of the new terminal and very little exposed copper is showing sticking out (exposing about an inch).
When I replace a terminal end, I clamp the new terminal end in vise grips so the open end is pointing up and set the vise grips down so I don't need to hold them (you need to have a flat surface within reach of the battery cable, so having all the batteries removed at this time makes it easier and you can set the vise grips on the base of tray), then I use a map/propane torch to heat up the terminal end and fill the cavity about 3/4 full of solder, then while its still molten, push the cable in until it seats. Remove heat, and hold the cable still for a minute while the solder cools. Then slip your heat shrink tubing over it.
Sorry if I 'm stating the very obvious to you.
The crimper tool is nice, but if you only make up cables once every ten years or so, it's hard to justify the price for a good crimper set (that does up to 0000 cable). The solder method is as good but requires more space to work with.
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I have thoroughly re-read all of these replies and have come to the conclusion I need to call a battery shop to come out to the coach and do this work.
I don't have any solder, or a soldering gun.
I don't have any heat shrink tubing, or method to heat it.
I don't have a crimping tool.
I cannot be on my knees in front of that bay for the time it will take to remove the batteries and do the other associated work.
The cable that is broken off needs to be lengthened, not shortened, because what caused the break to start with is not the corrosion, but twisting it out of the way to open the cover on the cells. After doing it so many times, the eyelet type connector just broke off. It was too short to begin with, and the person who installed the batteries put it right on top of the cell covers...tight. Impossible to open that moving clamp to get the cell covers off.
Every time I check the water in the batteries, I have always used battery cleaner and a wire brush to clean the connections, the last time before yesterday was about a week before we left home on November 25th.
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Stan,
I've found the spray corrosion protectant, (best I found is NAPA's brand) works better than the felt pads that many shops install on the posts. Spray the protectant after the connection is made and tightened. If battery(s) start to corrode with this treatment, battery probably needs replacement.
Steve
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Sounds like your wire brushing just exposed new surface primed for gas corrosion. That’s why cleaning alone isn’t enough. There are many options, but most are better than just cleaning alone.
https://www.permatex.com/products/specialized-maintenance-repair/battery-maintenance/permatex-battery-protector-sealer/
https://www.batterymart.com/p-cb104-brush-on-ncp-2-corrosion-preventative-4oz.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAluLvBRASEiwAAbX3GYVmw-V9p4XUKCrWfRyOCbMWJAJVOAZqTXlDHUqkZxS0rfYn9qt5BRoC3eYQAvD_BwE
One of my cables has always slightly interfered with a battery cap bar also, but I tweaked it on the post just enough to maneuver the bar, and that connector never corroded much anyway, and usually didn’t need removal. Sounds like yours was just too tight to tweak it without cable stress. The corrosion from battery charge gassing just accelerated breakage, especially since copper wire gets harder and more brittle each time it’s bent/stressed.
I’ve found that the older deep-cycle batteries get the harder the charger has to work, and thus the more gassing.
Use connector paint or Corrosion-X after the tech finishes your repair, if he doesn’t himself.
Joel
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Update: Using my phone to peck this out, one letter at a time. 😀
Not being able to find a repairman, I decided to get in to this myself. First, I should say for the first 24 hours, I continued to have full functionality via the shore power. Then I should say for the last 24 hours. I have been without any power from any source. Of course this happens when we had a gully washer rainstorm, and a present temp of 54 degrees, with 15mph winds straight out of the North
When I disconnected the shore power and shut off the batteries, everything went out. I heard the AGS start but I now know my broken cable is to the transfer switch, so even though the generator and on it was not transferred. I plugged the shore power back in, heard the familiar ‘clunk’ but no transfer was made.
Before I unplugged the shore power the first time, everything was still working without the broken cable because no transfer was necessary.
All of my battery cables are 2/0 EXCEPT the disconnected one, its 3/0, a heavy duty welding cable. I was at a welding supply house at 7 am this morning and got what I need, including a cable cutter. Yesterday I stripped back the end of the 3/0 and the corrosion goes about 4 inches. I’m going to cut the bad part off and splice a new piece to reach the stud.
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Get the heat shrink tubing with the "adhesive" inside. It makes a better seal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201RZ7QGWf4
Good luck.
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Success!! All repaired, and back to normal. Transfer switch is working, Inverter/Charger is charging, AC is in.