BAC Forum
General Boards => Redecorating and Updating your Motorhome => Topic started by: JCMillerSr on January 22, 2015, 03:40:30 AM
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For the past several days I have been pulling my hair out trying to understand the antenna wiring in my 92 Marquis. This all started when I began trying to trace the dozen or so coax cables I found in the front passenger side overhead cabinet. After testing each cable I have identified the following connections:
1. Main TV - Front lower center dash
2. TV #2 - Bedroom
3. VCR - In and Out
4. Park Cable
5. TV Antenna
6. Satellite
In addition to these 7 cables there are an additional three cables that I have no idea what they could possible be. I know there is another connection in the bay next to the entry door but it seems to be connected directly to the TV Antenna. I have traced the coax from this connection up into the living area, along the wall under the dining table area and into the refrigerator cabinet where it appears to be heading straight to the rear TV cabinet. Unfortunately the rear TV cabinet only has on coax which comes out of the ceiling in the back of the cabinet and goes straight to the TV and has been identified as TV #2 cable. The original wiring diagram indicates that one coax was routed to the VCR and then from the VCR it was split three ways to cover the Front, Rear and External TV's. I really need to find that splitter and am at my wits end as to where it could be located.
A lot of my frustration is due to the fact that the previous owner(s) made modifications to the wiring and equipment. The original Winegard distribution system is no longer operational although the switches and control wiring seem to remain in place. The VCR is DOA and I am hoping to replace it with either a DVD player or something similar.
The front TV is the original Panasonic standard definition and needs to be updated in the worse way but so far I cannot figure out how to take the cabinet apart without destroying it. Hopefully someone out there has already done some similar upgrades and can offer some free advice before I go crazy (crazier is more like it).
So has anybody out there found that darn splitter and what is the secret to removing the old brick of a TV without destroying the cabinets?
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JC,
The splitters in circa 2000 coaches are usually in the front/side cabinets. I'd also check all the cabinets between the rear TV and the VCR (on that side of the coach). Also, look behind any removable panels in the cabinets. You may want to consider getting a wire tracer. It makes locating wires a heck of a lot easier!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_11?url=search-alias%3Dindustrial&field-keywords=wire+tracer&sprefix=wire+tracer%2Caps%2C207
I got the Fluke Pro 3000 and am very satisfied with it.
Not sure what your TV cabinets look like but here is what I did on our 2001 Contessa. Not too tough a job and very functional.
http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php/topic,1976.msg14297.html#msg14297
Good Luck, Steve
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The extra cable heading to the rear of the coach could be a cable input intended to come from the campground. There should be a female plug in the rear somewhere near the utility connections. Usually all the cables went to a central point like where the roof antenna switch was and a jumble of splitters and rf switch boxes were nearby. Once you have the key cables defined that you need you can usually improve the connections with adding distribution amps and HDMI cables if the changes are planned to accommodate them.
A lot of us have made these kind of changes and documented them on the forum. I have several as does Steve that you may find helpful.
Later Ed
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Good Mornihg JC,
I have done over 35 of these updates over the last 5 years on all Luxury coaches. I am a retired RVIA certified technician and my talant is cabinetry and audio/video upgrades. I am currently doing a 2002 Marquis. It will have a 40" TV in the center overhead and matching cabinetry in the "Marquis Theme". If you could send me a picture of the existing TV cabinet and video selector location, I'll be glad to talk to you and give some direction how to comprehend what you have and how to get where you want to go. Fred Brooks
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Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. The original equipment in this coach had a Winegard system which allowed the front TV and the Bedroom TV to share either the VCR (located in the front), the OTA Antenna or the Park Cable. This was also the original source for the 12v amplifier for the antenna. The switchplates and the wiring for these controls is still in place as far as I can see but was long ago abandoned and replaced with a Winegard selector box in order to handle the addition of a satellite receiver.
As far as the exterior cable (coax) connection here is only one coax coming into the box which also includes a 12v adaptor. The coax runs up through the floor approximately 18" to the left of the entry door where it then travels in what I will call a wire trough (plywood box out along the floor) on the passenger side back to the refrigerator cabinet. Once inside the refrigerator cabinet it runs up the wall to the ceiling and continues to the rear of the coach. Once it reaches the ceiling I can no longer see where it is routed. Lucky for me (or unlucky depending on how you look at it) I am having the refrigerator replaced next week and when they pull out the old unit I will be there to take a look at where the wires go. As previously mentioned, the cabinet for the Bedroom TV only has one coax which has been identified as TV #2. That means that somewhere between the refrigerator and the bedroom the OTA antenna cable has taken a detour.
So far the only tracing I have been able to do is to use my voltage meter and olm out each cable. After I had located all of the basic cables I remembered the exterior connection and was sure it was going to be one of the three or four undefined cables I found in the front A/V cabinet. Imagine my surprise when it ended up being part of the OTA Antenna cables.
As to the VCR, it was located in the front center upper cabinet directly over the Main TV. When I removed it last week the only wiring in the entire cabinet was the power cord, one set of RCA jacks (red, white, yellow) and two coax for VCR In and VCR Out. My next step will be to remove the plywood ceiling in the upper right front cabinet and see what else may be hiding up there.
For the present time I am taking a break from the renovations and will resume my search next week. Starting Monday the new refrigerator will be installed and then it is back to "search and rescue" mode for me. Hopefully between now and then someone can give me some additional ideas of where to look. I will also post a few pictures next week of the front TV cabinet, the old Winegard controls and anything else I can think of that may spark someone's memory.
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Good Mornihg JC,
I have done over 35 of this updates over the last 5 years on all Luxury coaches. I am a retired RVIA certified technician and my talant is cabinetry and audio/video upgrades. I am currently doing a 2002 Marquis. It will have a 40" TV in the center overhead and matching cabinetry in the "Marquis Theme". If you could send me a picture of the existing TV cabinet and video selector location, I'll be glad to talk to you and give some direction how to comprehend what you have and how to get where you want to go. Fred Brooks
Fred,
Here is the only picture I have of the front TV at the present time. As you can see, the TV is located bottom center between the Driver and Co-Pilot Seats. The VCR is/was directly above in the overhead cabinet. The upper cabinet on the passenger side is where all of the coax cables presently terminate and also where the old Winegard wallplate is located. The TV is larger than the cabinet opening and cannot be just pulled out. There were several screws in the interior of the cabinet face which I removed but nothing resulting from the screws being gone. I really do not wish to destroy the cabinet facing but the TV has got to go. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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JC,
I had a similar configuration in a 89 Contessa. I pulled the TV out of the lower cabinet. The roller glides at the end of travel lift and pull (same as a drawer) to pull the TV out. I took the tv roller base unit and built a cabinet onto it for a Sony amp, a DVD player, and CD/DVD storage area. I then moved the TV location up overhead and put in a 32 inch Sharp LCD unit centered in the coach. I routed the necessary wiring changes up the pillar posts under the trim covers. I will attach some photos of the mounting of the TV.
I cut out the center upper cabinet bottom and created a TV swing arm mount. When the TV was retracted back toward the front cabinet it ended up centered and held in place by a lower bracket (in black) and upper wood mount of curly maple. I had some adjustable screws with rubber pads to keep vibration down in the upper corners from the backside of the TV. The lower cabinet amp mount is in one photo for ideas on that portion. We also did an 20 inch lcd tv in the bedroom which is included in one photo. It all worked out well but it was a good size project. Hope this helps with some ideas.
My TV may be different then yours if you are not able to pull it out on a drawer glide.
Later Ed
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Ed.
I like what you did with the conversion. I am wanting to do something similar. I am beginning to think that the original cabinet and TV were modified somewhere along the way. There is no track, no drawer, nothing to pull out, push back or lift up! At one point I thought I could just push the TV back and work it out sideways......nope, nadda, zilch. TV does not budge at all. By the way, the tangle of coax cables I noticed in one of the pictures in the front cabinet looks very familiar, except times 2 in my case. Thanks for sharing the pictures. They have given me some ideas.
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You may try and go in around the TV edge with a mechanic lighted swivel mirror on an extension handle to see what you can see.
If it came down to destroying the TV (no loss) or destroying the cabinet I would opt to destroy the TV. Place a heavy blanket over it and destroy the picture tube. Cut or break out the TV cabinet until you can get at the mounting hardware and remove it. Just think your way through this and keep safety in mind.
Once the TV is out you can plan out what comes next. One persons thoughts...
Later Ed
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You may try and go in around the TV edge with a mechanic lighted swivel mirror on an extension handle to see what you can see.
If it came down to destroying the TV (no loss) or destroying the cabinet I would opt to destroy the TV. Place a heavy blanket over it and destroy the picture tube. Cut or break out the TV cabinet until you can get at the mounting hardware and remove it. Just think your way through this and keep safety in mind.
Once the TV is out you can plan out what comes next. One persons thoughts...
Later Ed
Ed, I blew his picture way up and a thought came to me, could it be possible that the TV is anchored through the floor? Knowing how they build these cabinets I can't think of a way to anchor the TV without being able to see what is holding it in. Just a thought, I would get under the coach and just have a look.
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JC,
If the facing opening is smaller than the TV front, there almost has to be some cabinet screws coming into it from the back or screws holding the complete cabinet to the floor or front of the coach under the dash. BTW, what are those 4 cutouts on the side of the facing front for? Are they possibly access for hold down screws? It's not logical that the installer would not have had some way of removing the facing and TV since TVs don't last forever.
Steve
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I was thinking that maybe the original version was much like mine with a pullout tray holding the TV. The cutouts were for door hinges and doors that were removed as well as the pull out tray to accommodate a larger TV in that opening. I'm not sure of this but I had not seen a lower TV cabinet without doors or a pull out tray, but then again I have not seen that many installations. BCS may have an answer on the original install or how to get this TV out. Perhaps the archives have the original brochure that might show the original installation for some clues.
Later Ed
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I looked at several 92 Marquis units for sale and a Contessa and they all had doors on that cabinet. It looked like in the unaltered state there was a horizontal piece of wood across the bottom which could have been a pull out. If this is a bigger TV then the original and the lower board was removed then the door would no longer fit so that is gone. If you look closely there may be some wood color change where the doors used to overlay which would be a hint. Lee I am thinking it is not likely that it is bolted from below but you never know. I do not think that wood cabinet would come out without being able to unscrew some screws from the inside so the TV has to come out first. Maybe a strap around the base, if it can be worked over the tv from the front, and a "whole lot of yanking going on".
Later Ed
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The "through the floor" was a long shot but you never know. I always say if man/woman put it together I can get it apart, it cannot be that hard. I installed a flat panel in a friends MH a couple of yrs ago and they had some screws hid under the overhead covering, had to just study it and feel around to find them.
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Hi JC, Let me try to reply one more time. I did something wrong and sent my reply to LA LA Land! I agree with Edward, the "key" to this is the faceframe. Perhaps they covered angle aluminum angle mounts with fabric or carpet to conceal the attachment faceframe?
Concerning the audio/video, how do you intend to use it? OTA antenna for local news and weather while traveling? Are you going to add a satellite system? Do you use the exterior compartment hook up for outside TV?
Do you hook up cable tv in RV parks when traveling? The reason I am asking is to come up with a game plan to use the existing coax cables and keep it close to the original engineering.
The most common problem I have run into is this. They don't understand how winegard engineered the system. The roof antenna will not work unless amplified. The original booster switch plate had three connections on the back (stamped on the back side of the plate) antenna, cable and set 2. The original video selector box for that model had connections for 1-antenna 2-aux 3- vcr in 4-vcr out 5-front tv and tv #2. It sounds like to me that the previous owner replaced the origial video box with the newer type with more inputs and outputs and also has the built in amplifier. You can tell by looking and seeing if there are a red and black 16 ga wires going to it. Some models have a red LED in the front, first generation models didn't.
You are on the right track trying to identify the coax cables. The easiest way to track each is to "short one end with an alligator clip and then go looking for the shorted cable where you think it terminates. Note: any coax cable still attached to a tv will give you a false reading. Once you advise me of your intentions, I'll draw you a schemetic and scan it so I can post it. Blessings to you and have Fun! Regards Fred
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Fred,
On our Beaver they had all the cabling screwed up, I made up a 50' jumper using speaker wire with clips on the ends and Ohm'ed out ever cable I could find and tagged them. Got all connected correctly and imagine that the system worked like it should. I think there is still one cable that I never found the other end, oh well!
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Hi Lee, Kudos to you, your a smart man, My understanding is some units had a spare coax up in the roof area for future satellite upgrades and or installation. Glad you perservered and all is working to your expectations!
Regards Fred
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Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions on how to remove the old TV. I am finally back home and ready to proceed with the renovations. First, to answer a few questions, the original cabinet did in fact have doors which were removed at some point leaving the cutouts for the hinges on each side. If there was ever a slideout in the bottom of the cabinet it was most likely removed to install a larger TV. There were three or four screws on the interior of the face frame that I originally thought held the trim in place but even after removing the screws everything is firmly attached. Possibly they screwed and glued the faceplate back on during the previous changes. I have looked under the RV and see nothing to indicate that the TV or cabinet is attached in any way through the floor. My next step is to try to carefully remove the top of the TV cabinet so that I can see the inner workings of the cabinet. The opening will not be big enough to remove the TV but at least I can get a few more ideas on how to proceed from there.
With regards to the cables I was able to find an old wiring diagram in my manuals which indicated there was originally a splitter mounted somewhere between the VCR and the three TV outlets. Obviously this was also changed along the way with no sign of the new location of the splitter. The old antenna has been replaced and a new coax runs directly to the selector box providing a good clear signal to both inside TV's. The original booster for the antenna did not work and in fact apparently never worked for two reasons. First, there was never a ground wire installed to the switch. I had 12v power but without the ground the signal was not being amplified. Second, due to the splitter which was apparently between the booster and the antenna the amplifier could not do its job. Bypassing the old cables (which I removed by the way) and installing a new cable has resolved this problem.
My next step in this process will be to install a TV in the cargo bay and see if I can get a clear signal either from the OTA antenna or the satellite through the selector box. Following that will be replacement of the old VCR with a DVD player once I am able to access the old TV in the front and gain access to the A/V cables.
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The mystery with the front TV cabinet has been solved!
Yesterday I decided to do some more investigation into how I could remove the old TV from the front cabinet. After crawling around and looking at the cabinet from every direction possible I finally decided there must be some hidden screws holding the cabinet to the floor. After pulling back the carpet in front of the cabinet and removing some of the carpet tack strips I could not see anything more than before. Then I decided to use some brute force and see if the cabinet would move. To my surprise when I pulled on the cabinet it moved....just a little but it did move. Several more tugs and voila, the cabinet with the TV still inside moved far enough that it was out in the open so that I could remove the TV from the rear. All that was holding the cabinet in place was the weight of the dash and the carpet tack strips in the floor at the front.
Still have not located the darn splitter for the coax cables. Most likely it was already removed by one of the previous owners so I am chasing ghosts.