BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Keith Moffett on September 05, 2015, 09:13:05 PM
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We bought this coach two years ago and had a full service done on the Aqua Hot. Fuel filter, nozzle, burn chamber, sparker adjustment, even replaced the computer.
We didnt use the Aqua Hot much but did run it periodicaly for two years.
This June it was hard starting and puked white smoke so I figured it was time. New fuel filter and nozzle, clean burn chamber, check sparker adjustment. With this done it fired right off and cleaned up the remaining smoke.
We tried it a couple times and it ran fine so problem solved.
In July it was hard starting again but it ran on the second try.
At the end of August it doesnt want to start at all.
What is most likely? Fuel pump, ignition coil? Something else? I know I need a new burn chamber due to warping so any suggestions?
Keith
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Keith,
These burners are fussy and seem to have problems if you do not burn them enough. I would start by buying one of the newer Danfoss nozzles from Roger Berke, clean the chamber, check the gap, clean the electrode tips, and replace the nozzle. This is inexpensive and relatively quick and easy to do. Then if you have problems you can go from there to test for other issues.
I should also mention getting Orman involved in the parts supply. I'm sure he has these parts on hand that are top notch.
Later Ed
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After I parked for several weeks last spring with out exercising the HydroHot, it started acting weird. I bought the nozzle and filter kit. After changing only the filter, it ran right until we sold it. Since a new filter fixed it, I didn't go further. Do the simple stuff first!
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Just did all that 2 months ago. What do you all suppose would cause it to need doing already? We havent gotten bad fuel or anything.
Keith
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According to Roger Berke, nozzles can last from a day to years. Most of us get a year or two, but sometimes we are unlucky. In my case, for reasons I can't explain, there were enough particulates in the fuel to partially restrict the HydroHot filter but not the engine filters. Although, the new owner may be changing engine fuel filters as we speak!
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Hi Keith
Did you check the Fuel pump pressure?
Did you use the proper fuel filter? or......
Did you foul the nozzle?
Did you set the igniters properly?
Check the Combustion chamber again
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Orman,
the R-12 filter is a cross over from Napa, the nozzle is straight from AquaHot. I have no pressure rating to go bh for checking the fuel pump nor method for doing it.
The nozzle was installed properly without touching and the igniters were set per instruction.
We talked in June about the warping of the burn chamber. It was difficult to get the screws back in after cleaning the air spinner. At that time you suggested that the small gap might be ok but should be replaced with next service. For this reason I have avoided pulling it apart again. Is there someplace to get the burn chamber assembly other than Aqua Hot? I have a new nozzle spare.
Thanks
Keith
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Aside from Aqua Hot, where does everyone buy parts?
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Assuming you mean AquaHot parts: http://beaveramb.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=588 is best source of technical expertise. http://www.parts.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/ is also great source of parts - this is where I've purchased mine and also asked for advise (and got it).
AquaHot is a fantastic system and just as complicated as the lunar lander :D
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Aside from Aqua Hot, where does everyone buy parts?
Most parts came from whoever serviced it. Those people ranged from Florida to Oregon. For everything DIY, I used Roger Berke at http://www.parts.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/ (http://www.parts.rvhydronicheaterrepair.com/) . Those parts included an electric heating element, high temp cutoff, electric element relay, nozzles and filters, mix valve pex pluming and I forget the rest. Maintaining a HydroHot for 12 years was painful. Other repairs included a burner tube, two stir pumps, the mix valve, a bearing deep inside the burner, a Webasto computer box, two of the large boiler $100 radiator caps, etc. When it worked, it worked well.
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Thanks Frank and Bill. Had heard of Roger but did not have the contact info. I am hoping he is a bit less expensive than AH.
I wont hold my breath, LOL.
Bill, are you bored yet with no repairs to do? There are times I could agree with you for sure!
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Thanks Frank and Bill. Had heard of Roger but did not have the contact info. I am hoping he is a bit less expensive than AH.
I wont hold my breath, LOL.
Bill, are you bored yet with no repairs to do? There are times I could agree with you for sure!
Rodger can be a little less expensive that AquaHot. It seemed to depend on the part. The good part with Rodger is that if you buy parts from him you become part of his forum system and he will give you direct advice as well . When our electric element burned out, he taught me how to replace it. Part of it is getting the fluid out and there was supposed to be a drain. Somehow there wasn't one. It took a couple pictures back and forth to confirm it. Once that was done he explained how to use a circulation pump to pump it into a bucket. The element itself was discounted 10%.
Rodger also has some good trouble shooting, maintenance guides and checklists in .pdf format you can download when you are on his active customer list.
You made me laugh about not having repairs! The list, complexity and scope are certainly more inline with my wishes. I found out today I will need six quarts of oil, not five, for the coming service! Even Wal-Mart stocks the oil filter. I remember when the Beaver was new, I found the dipstick was on the low mark, I put in a quart and couldn't figure out why it wasn't back on the full mark. I have had some trouble with the kitchen drawers sliding out on right hand turns. They go back in on left hand turns. And, somehow the supply chain got some low quality Chinese cabinet latches that tend to break. PleasureWay overnighted me 21 new ones so I've been replacing them. I was also given new house batteries after dry camping and not being able to make the electric bed work right. The electronics in the amplified TV antenna doesn't work and the choke sticks on the Onan. There is always something, but overall I'm enjoying having less mechanical stress!
One surprise has been how much gas a Ford Triton V-10 can burn when your are driving at the 4 wheeler speed limit (or maybe +5). The road goes by quick at 80, but there is a price to pay. I guess frontal area counts!
BJ and I seem to have adapted to the small living space. We left the toad behind and are doing all our exploring and shopping with the RV. 22 feet is a very different experience than the 65 feet (with toad). I frequently back into parking spaces but have not yet tried parallel parking. We are over half way to Branson and still smiling!
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Today I called Orman. I have to be pretty frustrated to bug somebody by phone but the AH problems just didnt make sense. Throwing more parts at it didnt make sense either even though I just got a shipment from Roger Burke.
We had just tried to start the AH yesterday without success so I go out and start opening it up, again. Once the cover is removed something isnt quite right. The zone C relay is out of position part way. I pushed it in and redid the clip all the while thinking it cant be this simple can it?
The wife hit the switch and it fired right off. The last thing I did before closing up last time was to check connections etc. And it ran fine then so the relay became unseated somewhere on the road.
I just wanted to put this out there for the next person when it just doesnt make sense but wont run anyway.
Keith
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Hi Keith,
The earlier AHE models have the 3 vertical box relays with retainer clips. Unfortunately they are kind of in the way when you are trying to remove the Wabasto unit (your forearm hits them inadvertently) Just like that red 16 gage wire that is in the way. If you are a do it your-selfer, always check the red wire and relays before buttoning it up. Another thing to check is the rubber boot that monaco was adding to the air intake at the bottom of the Wabasto where it goes thru the floor. It is not unusual for the boot to get folded over and block the air intake into the Wabasto. This causes misfires and excess smoke. If you can use a mirror to check this or crawl under and look up. No fun when your Honey says "Do we have hot water yet"
Regards Fred
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One last thing as a heads up for somebody.
we have been losing coolant in the AH since day one. Sometimes it seems like normal evaporation but perhaps too much for that alone. Also there was a fluid in the bottom tray of the AH but not diesel and no obvious leaks in fittings.
After another talk with Orman and a good look at the radiator cap, I just got a new one. Turned out that the cap was 7 pound rated and it needed to be 13. Everything looked normal until I had the cover off and ran the AH until it was good and hot. Only then did the cap fail and coolant spill out instead of going to the expansion tank.
Thanks again Orman!
Keith
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Somebody put the wrong cap on yours, pressure to low.
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We have had this subject come up before and I researched with the Aqua Hot technical folks and they said they found the lower pressure caps harder to find and went to a higher pressure cap for availability.
Keith, the reason your cap leaked did not have anything to do with pressure rating of the cap. It had to do with ageing of the rubber seal that no longer kept the fluid from leaking at the cap interface. The only reason to raise pressure in this boiler is to raise the boiling point and a 6 to 8 lb cap has more than high enough boiling point to be well beyond the high limit cut out of the safety Aquastat limit. The reason I bring this up because there are several weak points in the Aqua Hot designs that we have that tend to break and leak.
The cap itself, the hose that goes to the expansion tank (I went to silicone hose), and the steel to brass soldered interface that is between the riser fill pipe and the cap receiver. That interface is not sleeved and is prone to leak in time as thermal cycles stresses that joint.
Like the white plastic overflow tank on our Cat C12s, lower pressure and less stress makes this tank last longer, I run a lower pressure cap and my tank is original. Basically whether you use a 6 to 8lb cap or a 12lb cap, the boiler is fully wetted with fluid, the zones are free of air, and they flow properly. It is just at a lower pressure, the expanded fluid begins to flow to the overflow tank and back with heating and cooling...actually that is a good thing because it is less stress on the system.
Aqua Hot, in my discussion with engineering folks, their designs were actually going to a non pressurized system. Higher pressure equals higher boiling points, there is no other boiler operating parameter that is affected by the pressure rating of the cap. I have had cap leaks, hose leaks, the solder joint fail and have repaired them all and run the lower pressure cap. Aqua Hot used to ship the units with lower pressure caps. Hope this helps.
Later Ed
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Sure lends some perspective. Thanks Ed!
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Aqua-Hot has done some redesigning, Now has Zero pressure system. No Radiator cap.
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Gentlemen,
Was wondering where you purchased a 6 - 8 psi radiator cap? Checked several auto part stores without success. Cat engine has a 7 psi cap and I want to change over the Aquahot as well.
Appreciate your help!
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You should find one at the local NAPA store
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Thanks Jerry.... :)
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My two cents.
When I removed the big cap, that had probably never been touched before, there was lots of rust between the cap and the rubber gasket. Of course I disturbed the rust, breaking the sealing capacity of the gasket.
Not having the wait time or $75+ I carefully removed the rubber ring gasket and Dremel ground the inside of the cap then used some Form-a-gasket black between the rubber and underside of the cap. Has now sealed for a yr - will replace when wallet is thicker.
Cheers, Frank