BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Michael Hannan on January 23, 2015, 06:11:10 PM
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Hello. I have been having trouble with the black water valve on my coach. Despite being careful not to hold the open switch for more than 1-2 seconds, there are times when pressing the switch does nothing. I then have to remove the water station panel and activate the valve manually. The switch will work when I put the panel back in place but next time I try to open the valve the switch does nothing (the light doesn't come on either). I've checked the connections on the back of the switch and all appear ok. Any ideas of similar experiences out there?
I noticed that the valve was made by Aladdin so I'm guessing that if it needs replacing I'll need to find another brand.
Thanks
Michael
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Michael,
Sounds like an intermittent switch or bad valve. I'd check to see if there's voltage on the output of the switch next time the valve sticks. If so, sounds like a bad valve. You could also try spraying the switch mechanism with contact cleaner. It might just be dirty.
Steve
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Thanks Steve. I'll give that a shot.
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Michael,
Your coach probably has Drain Master electric valves in it. I have the same problem with mine sometimes, the problem with mine is the way they Monaco mounted them horizontal flat a no no. I replaced one of mine a couple years ago, they still stick sometimes and have to manually open it a little. On mine there is no way to re-mount the valves so the topworks are up and don't fill with water and crap.
Drain Master, LLC
400 Park Center Dr. Suite 6
Hollister, CA 95023
Toll Free (877) RV STUFF
877-787-8833
FAX (831) 636-3759
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I had a similar issue in 2013 while in Rexburg, ID. While getting ready to leave a campground we all usually fill our fresh water tanks, and dump the black and grey tanks. This time after dumping the black tank the valve would not close. Several times it would partially close but the light would not go out signaling closure. Over and over I opened and tried to close the valve. I told Leslie at one point to quit packing because I thought we would be staying another night. Finally it closed and I didn't risk fiddling with it again. We just finished packing up and departed. BUT, before we drove away I told Leslie to put about a cup of cooking oil down the toilet with a couple flushes behind it. Now a couple times per year I have her put some cooking oil down the toilet after emptying the tank followed by a couple flushes. I have never had another problem with it.
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Thanks to all for the great info. Mine too is mounted sideways Lee. Thanks for the lead for ordering a new one. I'll give the oil idea a whirl David. In the meantime & as I am parked for the winter, I'll keep the panel attached by one screw for quicker access and keep my Allen wrench handy. 8)
Michael
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Thanks to all for the great info. Mine too is mounted sideways Lee. Thanks for the lead for ordering a new one. I'll give the oil idea a whirl David. In the meantime & as I am parked for the winter, I'll keep the panel attached by one screw for quicker access and keep my Allen wrench handy. 8)
Michael
I overlooked one small thing, in your first post you stated that your valve is made by Aladdin, Drainmaster only carries their own brand. I have not seen a electric Alladdin valve. A Drainmaster valve could probably be installed in place of yours but they are not cheap $90 bucks for the bare valve.
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The picture on the Drain Master site looks identical too the one I have installed including the switch.
Michael
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Well then, I'll bet they are Drainmaster, they have a new one out now that feeds a full 12 volts to the valve motor, now this has me thinking that maybe these like ours are not getting enough voltage to get full power out of the little motor in the valve top works. I may run a few test to see exactly what voltage get to the valve, and that may just be the problem with these. My gray tank valve works every time, so I'm wondering if it is the soap in the water that keeps the valve lub'ed.
Some have good luck my adding some kind of cooking oil to the black tank. Thoughts to ponder.
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The first time this happened to me I was dumping my black tank at the dealer prior to having work done. The tech who fixed it explained to me that the 1-2 second rule was because the servo that opens & closes the flap is so strong that if held in excess of that 1-2 second time would cause the flap to jam. I can survive the way it is now but I'm tiring of having to use the wrench to unstick it so a new unit may be in my future.
Michael
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On my Patriot Thunder the two valves are the first thing you see when you open the rear passenger side basement door, there is a black plastic panel covering everything to which I took the rotary cutter and enlarger the access hole, so using the Allen wrench is easy. If the valves give it up completely I will replace them with Valterra manual 5301 valves with the stainless paddles and be done with it. The valves are $35 on Amazon free shipping, less crap to go wrong, we don't need more crap.
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Mike: try rapping on the valve as you hold the button. I had these stick on me ,finally changed them out (piece of cake) but before I did the back of the screwdriver rapping worked.
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My valves are behind the water distribution panel Neil so it's easier to use the Allen wrench to open it once the panel is open. I think I'm looking at replacing the valve. I'll check all the other suggestions first before I do.
Michael
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MIke: if you can reach the manual opener, you try the technique I suggested. Instead of the allen wrench use the screwdriver and tap where the wrench would go.
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Best thing to do is go manual. Electric valves have always had issues since day one.
Thanks!
Tom Advantage RV
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My drain master valves have been problem from day one. I would like to install a manual valve in the area where the drain master is installed horizontally. Will they fit and whatbrand or replacement valve do you recommend
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I also had trouble with the blackwater power valve and discussed it with the manufacturer. They have improved the valves and have made a change to the mounting procedure. The shaft of the valve has to be mounted now so it is 90 degrees to the side or up and not down. Many of the original valves were mounted with the drive down and that accumulated debris that bound it. I have had no problems with the new valve mounted correctly in the last 4 years. I think a manual valve is a good idea if it not too much of a pain to make work. I also would not have a problem with a powered one given my experience since the replacement.
Later Ed
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My valves have been performing flawless since we bought the coach....until our last outing when I got an pleasant surprise. Went to dump the tanks before leaving the campground and surprise...the gray tank wouldn't open. After a bit of fiddling and cycling the switch it finally opened and and all was well but it does have me concerned. The tank was almost completely full and I'm wondering it was a bit sticky and the head pressure pushed the held the gate against the seal. I thought I could hear a slight click from the valve when it was trying to open.
I might try emptying the tank, cap the outlet, and pour some cooking oil down a sink drain. If I did this and than cycle the valve a few time perhaps that would help. If it still causes problems I may have BCS replace both valves when I stop in for my annual visit in June.
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One "gotacha" to be aware of with electric driven valves. I had mine replaced under warrantee as one was leaking. Found out the hard way that the shop had reversed the switch wiring by mistake. What a MESS! Should have checked out the repair.....
Steve
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We had problems with opening and closing both the black and grey electric valves the first year after purchasing the coach in 2012. After reading here on the forum about putting cooking oil down the toilet and sink we have had few problems. We usually put a half cup of oil into both tanks every few months... always after emptying the tanks so the oil can slosh around on the bottom of the tanks on the subsequent leg of the trip. For three years (so far) no more serious problems.
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We have had both manual and electric valves get stuck. Thank God we have had no trouble with our electric valves since they were cleaned with pine sol and calgon bath oil beads. In addition to improved valve operation, the cleaning brought the sensors into line with where I felt they should be. I had thought to replace the sensors but it is not necessary now.
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On my 06 PT I have always had problems with the valves not opening or closing, last winter I took both out and cleaned and lubed them real good. First trip of the year and the pos would not open so I manually opened the gray tank with the allen wrench.
I decided to run a test, hooked the Fluke to the lead wires at the valves and hit the button. Well no wonder 7.5-8 volts made up a long set of jumper wires with clips on the ends, connected to the house battery's and then tried to see if the valves would cycle. Worked just fine open and closed about 10 times.
On other side where the switches are opened the access door and took a good look at the wiring, what a joke comes from the 14g feed wire to a about 10' of 20g wire to the switches, cut out that wire and unsoldered them from the switches and replaced with about a foot of 14g wire.
Now they open and close like they are supposed to, so before you go to the expense of new valves you need to check the wiring and see just how much power to getting to the valve motors.
Also I ohm'ed out the switches and they had pretty high resistance through, took the fuses out and cycled the switched back and forth until they actually cleared up, now resistance through them is around 1-2 ohm's.
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I've had problems with both valves. I called the Drain Master folks and got help from them. They said that the most common problem is from tightening the bolts too tight thus squeezing the door and making it difficult to move. Their recommendation for tightening the bolts is to put them in finger tight and then tighten them with a wrench 1 1/2 turns only. This worked for me. It also helps to once in awhile when the tank is empty, pour a bottle of vegetable oil in so that it can soak the door and gate helping it to slide easier. Hope this helps.
MJ