BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Larry Fisk on July 31, 2015, 03:03:09 PM
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Hello friends, I am having a problem with my bedroom air conditioner water running off of the roof instead of running out of the drain. I think the drain tube comes out in the back of the coach near the mud flap. I have a 2005 Patriot Thunder Wilmington. I tried to access the drain pan on the air conditioner but it sits under the air conditioner. Would it hurt anything to blow compressed air up the drain tube from the other end to blow out whatever has the drain clogged? Any thoughts are appreciated.
Larry Fisk
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Well I went ahead and tried this fix. Water and a little crud blew out of the drip pan. Tried running the air conditioner again and it still fills the pan and runs out on the roof. Any ideas?
Thanks, Larry Fisk
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How does water run uphill but not downhill? It has to be the uphill pressure is greater than the downhill gravity pressure. My guess is there is something plugging up the tube and you need a bit more pressure to force it through. The drain tube appears full of water at the top? Can a flaccid wire (with a rounded end; a small, tight loop in the wire's end perhaps) be pushed upwards from the bottom or downward from the top? What about using air pressure? There has got to be a way to fix this issue!
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Dave, Find someone with a shop vac. Much easier to pulling the muck than push it.
Steve J
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Thank you David, I agree. It seems open when I blow thru it, but doesn't drain afterwards. I'm thinking maybe there is something in the pan that flows back over the pan drain when the water starts to flow. There is only about a quarter of an inch gap between the bottom of the unit and the top of the drain pan so I can't see in there to see what's going on. It's very strange indeed. I don't feel it's damaging anything, it's just annoying because it leaves a puddle on the patio. It's definitely not worth pulling the whole unit to get to the pan. I could try your wire idea. Maybe that would answer some questions. It is just so odd that the air seems to blow thru no problem, but the water doesn't drain.
Thanks again, Larry
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Thanks Steve, with only a quarter inch clearance I don't think I could get a shop vac to work. That is a good thought though. Maybe there is a way.
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Larry,
I wonder if a water hose in the outlet end of the pipe at the bottom of the coach back flushing the drain hose and overflowing the pan would work. I do not know if this method poses any issues but with reasonable pressure it should flush fairly well. You could put a little dishwashing detergent in the garden hose before connecting it up and turning it on to help clean things some.
Later Ed
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Thanks Ed,I think that is worth a try. I'll do it!
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Larry, I meant for you to try the vacuum on the lower end of the drain hose.
Steve J
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Oh, ok Steve. Sorry I misunderstood. I just got done trying Ed's suggestion of back flushing the drain to overflow the drain pan and try to flush out whatever is preventing it from draining. It worked great!! I'm not sure yet if that solved my problem, but I had water pouring off the roof of the coach so I know it definitely backflushed the system. We will see if that did the trick. Every time I stopped flushing water came pouring out of the hose. Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I really appreciate them all. If this didn't work then maybe the shop vac will.
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Does anyone know when this sort of thing was added to the Marquis? Mine is a '99 and I've always had the water coming off the roof. Should I expect to find a drain someplace up there and if so then where?
Thanks,
Mike
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Mike,
The Marquis had basement air 2000-2002. So I suspect they went to drains when they went back to roof units in 2003 (I think).
Steve
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Steve,
Yes, but mine is a '99 Marquis and it has the dual roof air which did also appear on at least one 2001 Marquis that I almost purchased. Just wondering if it's worth a look. I suppose I'd go to the roof and remove the cover and start looking for a hole near the condenser (or whatever its called). Anyone?
Thanks, Mike
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Mike, Very interesting conversation. If the coach came from the factory with roof air conditioning, then it would have the drain hoses incorperated into the roof structure which would be visable if you remove the plastic plenum cover right under the air conditioner. There is a "T" in the hose going to each side that goes thru the mounting gasket and up to the cups mounted to the bottom of the condensate catch tray of the evaperator. Over the years, dust,dirt and lint will accumulate in these cups and block the water flow into the drain hoses. If you blow back thru the hoses, sometimes you get lucky and dis-lodge the blockage but the dirt is still trapped in the cup. Another issue is sometimes the drain hoses droop down under the air conditioner and cause a p-trap effect which will block drainage. There is also a negative pressure on the drain system when the air conditioner is running created up in the evaporator compatment. That is evident when you turn off the a/c and you see an excess amount of condensate water draining from the coach.
Hope this helps, Fred
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I was not aware any had drains. Should I look for one on my 2002 Monterey?
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Al, Not real sure where a Monterey fits into pecking order of entry level coaches to hi-end luxury coaches. If the condensate water runs off the roof from both air conditioners, good probability it does not have roof drains. Regards, Fred
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Al - I do not know where you are located currently, but almost everywhere in the USA now has temps that would drive you to have your a/c on. After a few hours of running you should have at least two wet spots from your two a/c units on the pad under your coach. Take a look. Where is the moisture coming from - a tube underneath the coach's edge or running down the side of the coach?
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Great topic. Have had three RV's with roof a/c and all of them just dumped onto roof and gravity drained away the condensate (water). Understand the 'high-end' rigs wanting to be more discreet in where the water goes, but don't really care as long as it leaves the interior of the rig. Seeing the water drip off the roof is assurance drain holes are free flowing.
Expect those of you with roof a/c units will/should remove the plastic shroud at least once a season (that's 4 times a year) and vacuum/blow out all the leaves and hornet nests that will always collect there. Good time to inspect the drainage holes in the corner(s) of the pan and make sure they are free of debris.
Our current rig probably had never been cleaned and when the four (that's right - just four) screws were removed and plastic cover lifted off could see dozens of hornet nests and half an inch of decayed leaves plugging up 'radiators' and pan - they work lots better now.
A simple DIY maintenance job... Cheers to all.
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.... then it would have the drain hoses incorperated into the roof structure which would be visable if you remove the plastic plenum cover right under the air conditioner.... Hope this helps, Fred
If I understand correctly you're saying I gain access to all of this from inside the coach. VERY difficult in mine. The AC doesn't even have venting coming through the ceiling wood panels. Air is drawn in from the side and expelled from the sides of the ducting structure. So I suppose I'd have to remove the ceiling wood panels to expose the ducting structure then somehow plow through that. Not worth it. I guess a little water on the roof doesn't bother me. :)
Thanks Fred.
Mike
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Mike, where are the return air filters located on your coach? Are the roof air conditioners original or are they an updated replacement? Fred
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Mike, where are the return air filters located on your coach? Are the roof air conditioners original or are they an updated replacement? Fred
Fred,
I suppose in 1999 when Beaver first started putting up these ornamental wood ceiling with inlays, they didn't want to put a vent in them, so both the air suction and air supply to the coach are through long rectangular inlets to the side of the ducting structure to which the ceiling panels are attached. In mine I couldn't figure out how to find the filters so after asking around with no answers, I ran my hands up along the vent structure as I know that's where the air was coming out and felt filters placed into the air inlet rectangular cutouts of the sides of the vent structure. I could feel the air being sucked in versus being blown out of these openings.
The material is that standard filter material that is used for air conditions which are self contained with no ducting and which just suck the air in from the side (which use this material as filters) and blows it out the back. So, I have two (right and left) inlets up front and 2 in the bathroom where I basically cut a long strip of this material about 15 x 6 and curve it and push it in over the rectangular inlets - it's held in place basically by being stuffed in there in that curved shape. These inlets are approximately where others 2000 and later have the inlet vents cut into the wood which I suppose then can with draw and place a filter into (maybe the same material I am using), but mine are in the sides of the ducting structure so the wood is left entirely unblemished which does look nicer I think.
I've never felt the AC is not working well, but of course, now that we're vacationing at Pacific Shores, on the Oregon Coast, when we go out it rarely gets to the point of needing AC. We did use it a bit though when we left our dog inside this last time, and I did notice the two water streams coming off the roof, which is what prompted my question. I was hoping that these drains were something I could get to by removing the covers on the roof.
Perhaps Tom Brown has found a similar situation in his '99, or perhaps his is newer/older before or after they did what they did in mine. I know in '98 without the ceiling treatments there were vents.
Can you visualize what I have now?
Thanks,
Mike
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Mike,
Thanks for the detailed explanation of your ceiling ductwork. If I understand correctly, all the return air ductwork and discharge cool air ductwork are built into the roof decorative structure before it is perminently installed up to the ceiling. That is similar to how Newmar was building there coaches. The engineering reasoning behind it was to reduce the interior noise by controlling air flow and covering the main opening up into the air conditioner. If that is the case, then the air conditioner is mounted to the roof from the outside after taking the shroud off. (Roof airs are normally secured from the inside with 4- 8"x 5/16 bolts going up into the a/c and sandwiching the mounting gasket down to the roof to seal.) That would almost make it impossible to attach a drain hose to the a/c prior to installation. About that time 1999 almost all luxury coach builders were trying to keep up with each other and keep the condensate off of those gorgeous paint jobs. My 2000 has basement air and the return air filter is under the galley floor to the rear of the slide and serviced from outside. Not user friendly but at least I can look at it from inside and see if it is dirty.
All I am trying to do is fine tune a pretty good system and balance the anbient temperature thru out the living area and I think the registers that Steve is experimenting with may be the key if we can make them pretty because Cindy has a say in the outcome. Maybe brass plating?
Regards, Fred
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Just an update, I tried the water back flush on the drain hose. I had water pouring off the roof but water still does not drain thru the hose. Decided to try the shop vac idea on the drain hose. Sucked the water and some small debris from the drain pan. Water still does not drain from the hose. I see no way to access the drain without pulling the unit since the pan sits under the air conditioner. Though the water draining on the roof is annoying it's not worth it to me to pull the unit to see what's going on, kinked hose, etc. So I will live with it. Thank you again everyone for all your suggestions. After trying them I'm convinced there is more going on than a plugged drain.
Larry Fisk
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Larry, if you have access to the plastic plenum cover directly under the air conditioner on the interior ceiling, remove 6 or 8 screws and there is the hoses of the drain system. You are correct if the issue is in the drain collection cups, you will have to remove the air conditioner to remove the cups to clean. Caution at this age they are brittle. Fred
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Thank you Fred, the only issue for me is in order to get there I will need to remove the decorative ceiling fixture with the led lights around it. The air conditioner discharge duct is buried under that. Not too hard to do if my wife helps me. I'm thinking I will wait until we get back to our winter home in Indio, CA before I try to figure it out again. Thanks again though. I had no idea I could access the drain hoses that way.
Larry
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Larry, I'm pretty sure that decorative panel is mounted on a hinge. The hinge is on the passenger side and the retainer bolts are on the drivers side. If you get a step ladder, look up under the panel on the drivers side and you should see 3 bolts with 1/2" head. The reason I say this is because that is how Monaco was doing it on their coaches and your coach was built by Monaco. Please let me know because I believe there are a lot of Beaver owners that are not aware of this.
Regards, Fred
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Ok Fred, I will check that out as soon as my wife gets done with her Sunday afternoon nap. She can be pretty vicious if she doesn't get her nap, haha! Thank you again!
Larry
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Your a smart Man, Fred