BAC Forum
General Boards => Technical Support => Topic started by: Bill Johnson on May 17, 2014, 11:01:20 PM
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The IDS jacks on our 02 Patriot will not retract nor extent. They are currently in the extended position. The reservoir is full and the pump runs but nothing happens. We were able to level the coach last week but now when we try to raise (or lower) the only sound we get is of the jack pump running. Note, with the jacks extended I was able to add about a quart of hydraulic fluid to the reservoir but the jacks still will not retract (on our coach the pump/reservoir is located behind the right rear tires, behind the fuel and oil filters and is a real bear to reach). Any suggestions and advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Bill,
You may end up with a bit of a mess when the jacks do retract and push fluid back to the reservoir but hopefully not. The only thing I can come up with is a stuck solenoid valve. It is unsafe to get under the coach and rap on any valve while supported on the jacks with the pump running trying to retract. You might try starting the engine, building air, hopefully the air springs are in a position to inflate. Perhaps with the load off of the cylinders, if something was binding, they may retract. I would call BCS on Monday and see what they have to say. Be careful and do not be tempted to get under the coach without it being adequately supported and blocked.
Later Ed
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Hi Ed,
Thanks for the suggestions. I have inflated and deflated the aiirbags (3 times) but so far no luck in getting the jacks to move. I thought there miight be a problem with the pump, so I extended the slide and it worked fine. A stuck solenoid sounds reasonable but my problem is in knowing where a "master" solenoid would be located. I can find the solenoids for the individual jacks, but since none come up, I'm wondering if there is a "master" valve/solenooid somewhere.
Again, thanks for the suggestions (and warnings about getting stuck under the rig), if tappiing doesn't work, I will give BCS or Tom Halter (Advantage RV in Bend) a call on Monday.
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Bill,
I assume you are also trying the manual retract button. The fact that the slide works answers the question about the pump operation providing pressure. Sounds like the valves are not opening and allowing flow to the cylinders that force retraction. I have not had to work on any of the hydraulics or pump so I have no real knowledge of what one might try..... given that I went to the tap it with a hammer when all else is an unknown :-) All I have done, work wise on this system, is to replace some of the push button retract switches that sense when a cylinder is fully retracted.
Keep us posted, we will all learn something here.
Later Ed
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Ed. I have tried manual retract and semi-automatic leveling, both to no avail. So, next I will try tapping on the solenoids. But, first I will l have to dig a trench under the rig to give me "space" so if the jacks retract (with the air bags inflated) I won't be flattenend.
Again, Ed, thanks for your input.
Bill
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Bill,
What are the lights doing on your control panel when you try to retract or level?
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Karl,
When I try to level, the lights on the control panel cycle through the four corners and then the two front ones light and the center "level" light blinks. This occurs after the air is dumped from the air bags. When the system tries to level the coach, the pump is activated, but no pressure is applied to any of the jacks. When I go to retract (manual or automatic) the rear, left and right lights blink off and on, as the pump runs and nothing else happens.
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Bill,
I am assuming that you are level when this situation occurs? I appears that your control panel is working. Just a suggestion, you may want to unscrew your control panel and disconnect the power connector from the panel. Wait a few minutes than connect back the control panel. Your other option may be to manually retract each jack.
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Karl, the control panel seems to be working fine. How do you manually retract each jack?
Bill
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Bill,
Loosen the line from the top of the jack. You do not need to take it completely off. The hydraulic oil will come out of the fitting slowly as you push the jack up in the cylinder. Then tighten the fitting before driving away. The air bags should be pressurized during this operation. BTW. I would still try to reset your control panel before going to the trouble of manually retracting the jacks.
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Thanks Karl, I will try resetting the control panel before doing the manual retract and will let you know the result.
Bill
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Bill,
I think there is a side panel covering your pump that is removable. There should be 2 screws holding the bottom. Remove those screws and swing the panel up out of the way to gain better access to the pump/valves. If yours has a removable panel, it sure beats digging a trench. It must be frustrating trying to excape 100 degree weather, and not being able to move the coach. I wish you success.
Larry
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Hi Larry,
Our pump is behind the fuel filters, behind the passenger side rear tires. If only they had put it under the step!
And yes, it would be nice to get out of the 100 degree (plus) weather. Thanks for the good wishes. We will hopefully get out of here as soon as this issue is resolved.
Bill
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IDS update:
I removed the touchpad as suggested -- Unfortunately that made no difference. Then with a small hammer I tapped each of the solenoids, again nothing happened. I then replaced the touchpad with a new one, again no difference.
This is not the update I wanted to share with you, but as it stands, I'm at a dead end. It looks like I will be phoning Bend tomorrow.
Bill
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Hi,
I have two of the spare brains for the IDS system. Let me know if you need one. All I want for them is what I paid.
Good luck with this system.
Regards,
Jerry
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Hi Jerry,
I have an extra brain, but I thought it had to be programmed to work and the software to do that is proprietory (and in the hands of BCS). Am I mistaken on this and I really can switch out the existing brain with my new one?
Bill
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Bill,
My 01 Contessa had a bad landing pad that caused a jack to hang up in the down position. I don't remember if the other jacks would retract or not with the one jack stuck. In any case, you may want to try moving the coach just a few inched to see if that frees up the jacks (assuming you are on level ground).
I live in Chandler so if you need some help. let me know and I'll email you my phone #.
Steve
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Steve,
Thank you so much. I sent you an email with my pertinant info. l I look forward to hearing from you.
And, the latest news is that I have a call into Bend and waiting for a response. The saga continues.
Bill
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Bill,
Haven't received your email yet. Send me one at shuber4@cox.net or PM me on forum.
Steve
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Something else came to mind... A poor ground on the manifold/solenoid could very cause this problem.
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Karl,
At this point we have found that the solenoids are working and are now focusing on the relay that is located in the electrical bay in front of the driver's side front wheel.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Bill
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While we are tracking down the problem with our leveling system, I am thinking of replacing the "brain" of the system. I have a new one but don't know if it has to be programmed (and if so it is something I can do) before it will work properly.
Bill
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Bill,
If your current brain is working (acts normally when you go into a leveling cycle) I would not add another variable until I had sorted out the cause. If that leads you to the controller then by all means try it. Alliance or BCS should know if programming is required. If it is just a matter of zeroing in on the true level aspect of the calibration I have adjusted mine using washers under screws to compensate without any programming.
Later Ed
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Greetings all. A solution has been found! Thanks to all of you who provided sage advice and suggestions as well as offers to provide help and/or parts. Thanks to your advice and my sons help, we found the source of the problem: the bypass valve relay. We replaced that and now all is working well.
Thanks again for all the advice and support.
Bill
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Bill,
Can you photo the bypass relay location and add it to this thread. If someone has this problem we can then go straight to the problem relay and test it out. Good find on your part! You must feel very good indeed and how great you worked on it with your son.
Later Ed
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Thanks for the suggestion, Ed. I will take a couple of pictures tomorrow and attempt to post them. And yes, it was not only good to solve the problem, but even better to do it with my son. Father-son bonding is always a good thing!
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Bill,
Glad to hear you found the problem. If you need help posting pictures, there is a "sticky" in the General Discussion section that provides the how to in resizing and posting pictures or give me a call.
Steve
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Here is the first of three photos of the bypass valve relay and its location in the electrical bay (driver's side, in front of front tire). Note, the bypass relay is the one on the right side of the relay with the green tag.
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Second of three photos of bypass valve relay
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The third picture was the same as the second, so no third picture will be posted. If the two are not sufficient or if you would like additional information, please let me know.
Bill
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Bill,
Thanks for this, you always think that hydraulic issues are primarily valve mechanical or pump issues. This is a good find. I am not sure our compartment electrical layout is exactly the same but this is an excellent starting point. What was the label for this relay on the wires or from a diagram on the door if you had one?
Later Ed
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Hi Ed,
On our door, the electrical diagram lable is: K8, Bypass Relay. Hope this helps.
Bill
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Decided to start a new thread with my problem instead of resurrecting an old thread.
See new thread "SMC Leveling System Won't Retract" if you can help me.