BAC Forum
General Boards => General Discussion => Topic started by: Eric Maclean on May 09, 2020, 12:02:18 AM
-
Hi everyone
I have a 1997 Beaver Patriot Yorktown 40 foot
I have a problem with weight on my front axle as many others have spoken of.
My coach have front axle GAWR of 11000 LBS and a rear axle GAWR of 20,000 LBS
When I weight the vehicle with no water on board but fuel and propane tanks full my corner weights are as follows
LF 5600 LBS. RF 5200 LBS Total axle weight is Front =10800LBS
LR 8400 LBS. RR 8600 LBS. Total axle weight is Rear = 16800LBS
___________________________________________________________________________
As you can see I'm ok as far as gross axle weights but am close on the front axle with only 200LBS to spare and that's with out
My wife and I on board and no water if I put 100 gallons of water onboard the front axle goes to 6000 LBS each .
I'm willing to run with little or no water onboard but my real problem is the coach was built on 255/70 R22.5 tires at this point
They are Toyo M122 with max weight at 120 PSI of 5510 LBS which at this point the left front tire is already 50 LBS over loaded and there's no one on board. Too close for comfort even if I did manage to balance the weight on the front axle I have no margin
To add insult to injury the 255/70 R 22.5 are rubbing the rear wheel house liner right in front of the air bags.
My best solution is to move the axle ahead to gain clearance and install 275/70 R22.5 tires which have a higher weight rating
Which would let my breath a little easier.
Now here is my problem I have called both Henderson Line-up and BCS and both said the had no knowledge or information on moving the axle ahead.
So my call is for anyone who have any information or knowledge of the procedure or who to contact
As usual many thanks in advance
Eric
-
Eric,
SMC issued a service bulletin with detailed instructions on how to move the front axle forward to accommodate a larger size tire on the early Magnum chassis that was used under Patriots. I only know of a few owners that had the modification preformed and they have all retired from RVing, so I do not know how to contact them. If you can talk to Sean Lakin, the service manager at BCS, or Scott Dyson in the parts department, one of them may remember the bulletin, but I doubt that anyone will be able to find a 23 year old bulletin.
One of the coaches that had the front axle moved was in Florida, so a call to Josam Frame and Alignment in Orlando may be productive.
Gerald
-
you may want to talk with Bill McGimpsey, he had Momaco do the change on his 04 ?05 Pat.
-
Thanks Gerald
I'll try BCS again as sugested
Meanwhile does anyone else have any information on this procedure
I've got a pretty good idea on how I would execute the procedure but it would be nice to have some onsite.
Thanks again
Eric
-
Eric,
Whatever you do, do not put oversized tires on the front of your coach until the axle is moved. I know of two owners who did that on early Magnum chassis Patriots, and both of them suffered air bag failure while driving from tire contact.
Gerald
-
Eric,
On my 1998 Beaver Patriot Savannah (33 foot) MH my front axle weight is also 11,000 lbs and the rear is 19,000, but it came with 275/70R 22.5 tires on 7.5 inch rims. I guess maybe they saw a problem with the frame and corrected it.
A prior owner put larger, (I believe 295) tires on it and they did tear up the plastic inner fender area. With that said I would make sure the tires do fit since the air bags are the next in line to get torn up like Gerald said.
I don't know if there are any real differences in our frames but if you need me to see where things are set on mine just let me know.
-
Gerald
I here you I already have holes worn in the inner fenders and that's with the factory tire size and the air bags are uncomfortably close behind.
The only real fix is to move that axle forward.
Eric
-
Carl
That's what l understand ,they realized they had an interference problem and not enough tire for the weigh and moved the axle on the later year 8 bag chassis.
I am currently running the factory size tire 255/70R22.5 Toyo M 122 and they are rubbing the inner fenders at the rear of the wheel house.
The only way to increase tire size is to move the axle ahead to gain clearance.
What I really need to know is how far they moved it forward?
I need someone to measure the distance from the rear of the H frame to the center of the axle.
It's not fun thing to get measurements on as you have to get the coach blocked up and get under it to measure.
Anyway thanks for the input
Eric
-
ERIC: My 98 Beaver Patriot 37' Ticonderoga has same problem. I have had that coach 20 years now. I chose not to move axle or change tire size.
Here is what I did even though it is a bit bizarre. My tires rub that inner cover but mostly in the sharp turn area. One side of the factory inner cover was almost worn through to the bag.
My fix: I had some thin aluminum sheets cut (about 3/32" thick)that would fit on the tire side on the inner liner that is wearing. I used the same exact bolt holes and bolts that hold the inner liner on. I bored this hole pattern and mounted the plates on the tire side of the inner liner piece. Now when the tire rubs it hits the plates. I have had these on now many years and the plates are holding up quite well. If my aluminum plates ever wear totally through I will just make another set. Did all the work myself. Cost was under $10 for material and shearing at the time.
Another thing I now do is to attempt to avoid very sharp turns. Often when you exit a freeway after driving for some time those tires are hot and they will rub thru that inner liner much quicker than rub through a piece of metal especially when making right turns onto a narrow roadway.
Larry Fritz
1998 Beaver Patriot, 37', Ticonderoga
-
Larry
sooner or later I will have to fix those holes and that's likely the way I'll do it but right now I need to step up to larger tire size to carry the weight and to do that I need to move the a axle to gain the nessesary clearance.
My coach is 40 feet and when maneuvering into camp sites I quite often have to turn to the steering stops to get into the site it's truly give me 40 Acer's and I'll turn this rig around lol.
Does your coach already have 275/70R 22.5
Thanks Eric
-
I'll try to get you a measurement tomorrow, weather permitting. Mine is already blocked up, trying to get the two back bolts out of the axle housing to install a sate t plus. So far the bolts are winning, more pb blaster and heat tomorrow.
-
Eric,
I couldn't stand it any longer so clean or not I went out to measure. On my coach from the back side of the tire, The front of the beam that holds the air bag is 21 inches to the rear axle flange that bolts to the frame. From the front side, the rear edge of the beam that holds the air bag to the front axle flange that that bolts to the frame is 20 1/2 inches. Hope this helps. If you need me to measure to any other points let me know. I know that your frame is quite a bit longer, but hopefully these points are consistent.
-
Carl
Thanks for the measurements I know how hard it is to get under one of these things .
I'll go out this morning and measure mine for comparison.
I'll let you know what I find.
Thanks again
Eric
-
Carl
Which bolts are you trying to remove .
Eric
-
Eric, I think Carl is trying to remove a couple of the U bolt nuts to install the Safety Plus bracket. Some of those old rusted up U bolt can be tough, we used to just cut'em off and replace them.
-
Lee
I think your right but on these units they are large nuts and bolts instead of U bolts the same bolts I'd have to remove to move the axle I bet there easier to cut them off and replace with new.
Thanks Eric
-
Eric, I am trying to remove the 2 rear bolts that hold the front axle to the frame on the drivers side. Like Lee stated to mount the fixed bracket for the Super Steer trim kit for the Safe t plus. They are not u bolts however, but 3/4 inch bolts about 6 inches long and fine thread to boot. Take a 1 1/8 inch socket/wrench on both bolt and nut. I have got the bolts to slip a tiny bit in the holes, but the nut has not yet broken loose at all.
Trying to be patient. Lots of pb blaster, propane torch at 5 and 10 minute intervals, and a 3/4 inch impact. Going to work on it a few more days this way. Then will borrow a 1 inch impact, or buy a long 3/4 inch breaker bar. I didn't want to push my 24 inch 1/2 inch breaker bar any harder. Bolts go up from the bottom and are to long to clear the I beam on top. It would be hard to cut the top nuts off because of limited access. Failing all that I will see if maybe some of my trucking friends can throw some of their expertise to the situation
-
Carl
Just took the measurements and here's what I found.
From the front of the rear air bag frame that runs across the coach to the rear of the caster block which is between the I beam and the axle is 20 1/8" the block itself is 7 3/16" and the distance from the caster block to the front air bag cross frame is 20 1/8"
The distance between the face of the tire and the rear inner fender is 2 1/2" and the distance between the front of the tire and the inner fender is 4 1/4"
Question for you is front the rear air bag frame to the front air bag frame what is that measurement .
And did you measure to the caster block or the axle bolting flange.
On my coach if you stand back and look the front wheels are visibly not centered in the wheel openings being back approx 2 inches
By doing the math I come up with moving the axle ahead 7/8" would make the for and aft clearance equal but I don't think that's enough to allow a one inch taller tire height or a little bit better than 1/2" radius And 3/4" wider at the tread so 3/8" per side of centre so when turning that comes into play as well.
The 275/70R22.5 tires are 1.1 inches taller
.79 inches wider
3.46 inches larger circumference
.55 inches taller side wall
With that said maybe it would work
Carl thanks for your help
Eric
-
Carl
I looked at the bolts in mine and resolved myself to the idea that I would use a reciprocating saw to cut them and replace them with nice new expensive ones
I thought I would use the reciprocating saw to cut them in the open section of the I beam where they are accessible.
If yours are rusted or seized that bad I don't think a propane torch is going to do the trick your going to need to get them red hot and that will take an oxy acetoleen torch or an induction heater and you likely destroy the fine threads in the process .I think I'd just cut them off and get new ones and save myself the trouble of all the heating and beating.
Eric
-
Eric,
I just went out and remeasured everything in much better lighting conditions. I measured from the air bag frames to the axle flanges and this time clamped on a straight edge to get the most accurate reading.
The distance between the two air bag frames is 47 7/16 inches. From the rear air bag frame to the axle flange is 20 3/4 inches. From the front air bag frame to the front axle flange is 20 1/8 inches.
The space from the rear of my tire to the plastic inner fender is 2 5/8 inches, from the front to the inner fender plastic is 2 1/2 inches. The plastic is flexible though.
As for cutting off the bolts it is still an option but I would rather not go that way just yet. I have the bolt that is inside the frame out now. Once you get that nut to turn the first 32nd it is easy. The one closest to the drivers side is still fighting. It does rotate some in the hole and tighten the wrench against the frame but the nut is still holding fast. I really need a larger air source. I get a few seconds out of the compressor and then it is airing back up. My larger compressor is probably 200 feet of air line away so I think it will drop the pressure just getting to the impact. I'll get it!
-
Carl
Your in the same boat I'm in I'm about 200 feet from my garage as well .
I have a Small 1/2 cordless impact that I use to put the wheels on and off with that is capable of well over 500 ft lbs
I figured I'd use it .
As for yours you could try thermal shocking them by bringing them up to red hot and quenching them to help break the rust free.
Or you can take two large hammers set one up tight against one side of the nut and beat the other side with the other hammer
Apart from that some lock tight products require considerable heat to release and then there's always a 3/4 " Johnson bar and a 6 foot price of pipe.
Now I'll go redo my measurements and check back with you later
Thanks again
Eric
-
Thanks Eric,
I just broke my 1/2 inch breaker bar using a 5 foot cheater. Heard the snap knew it would be good or bad.... it was bad. I switched out to my big compressor and the longer lines. Maybe more constant psi will help. Will try the hammers, I can clamp one in place and maybe get a swing from the other side. The next time out I may heat up the nut and then hit top of the bolt with a can of freeze out. if one gets bigger and one gets smaller maybe it will let go. Let me know if you need any more measurements, it s hard to see under there in certain circumstances but I'll be glad to help you get your axle dialed in.
-
Just to update my unintentional semi hi jacking of this thread. The bolts are out, the bracket is on and the bolts are back in and tightened. Only took me a day and a half! CRC freeze out followed by more heat and the last one finally gave up.
-
Carl
After remeasuring mine I have 20 5/16 between the rear beam and the axle flange
And 20 5/8 between the front beam and the axle flange.
The axle flange is 6 1/2
When totaled up equals 47 7/16 between the beams
From your measurements it looks like your axle is only 1/2 an inch farther forward than mine
I assume you have the 295/70R 22.5 on there right now it would appear that both coaches have somewhere around 43 5/16
My 255/70R 22.5 tires are 36 9/16 tall and the 295/70R 22.5 are 38 3/16 and the tires I want to run are 275/70R 22.5 are
37 11/16 inches tall.
So I'm looking at moving the axle ahead 1/2 an inch to match yours.
Now all I have to do is get those pesky bolts out. LoL
Could you do me a favor and get the numbers of your front wheels they're probably accuride wheels I just want to compare the wheel off set to see if Beaver changed the off set to help aleviate the rubbing on turns.
Thanks for all your help
Eric
-
I have the 275-70 22.5's on there now. I believe a prior owner had the 295's on it. I changed all the tires last year at a friends trucking Co. Thank God for good friends! I/ he changed the tires, air bags, and in my case 6 shocks. Two that I now believe were added after it left beaver, but they did a professional job adding them.
I will be happy to look for the numbers, any idea where they are on the wheels? Mine are alcoa? aluminums.
-
Carl
The tires that are on it now 275/70R 22.5 don't rub on turns do they ?
The 295/70R 22.5 must have rubbed pretty good when it did was the rubbing just on the rear inner fender or the both front and rear
The shocks from what I understand was another change that Beaver adopted over time my coach only has one set of shocks on the front approx the centre of the I beam the problem they had is that with only one set of shocks they bad to be fairly heavy shocks in this case the same part number Bilstein shocks they used on the rear axle which carries twice as much weight.
The problem was that in order to line the shocks up with the lower I beam of the H frame the upper shock mounts had to stand off the upper frame rails about 6 or 8 inches and the foot print of the standoff bracket was only about six inches with two bolt about three inches apart which caused frame to crack through the bolt hole from the flexing caused by that long stand off
Bad design.
From what I've gathered Beaver had a retro fit procedure to change it to four shocks and you can chime in here if I'm wrong here but I understand they eventually moved the shocks out to the ends of the I beams closer to the air bags.
Thanks again Eric
-
The 275-70's don't rub, or if they do it is very minor. I have never heard or noticed it.
I have 2 shocks in line with the front wheels but outside of the wheels and two in front of them and inside the wheels welded to the cross member. The shocks in line with the wheels are the eye type shocks. The ones in front have a top stud and on mine are Monroe HD truck shocks.
-
Carl
When it had 295/70R 22.5 on it was there any rubbing up front or just in the low inner section of the rear in front of the air bag.
The reason I ask is I'm wondering if there is room to move another 1/4 of an inch or so as the 295/70R 22.5 are another inch taller. The thought was if it didn't rub the front inners with them on there may be room to move another 1/4 to 1/2 an inch forward
It sounds like your coach was one of the ones that was retrofitted with the second set of shocks.
It would be nice to see some pictures of the placement of the second set as my coach only has the one set a d has had to have frame damage repaired already it seem that if they went to two sets then the shocks would have to be as aggressive taking some of the stress off of the mountings. Did the and on shock mounts look like factory welds or aftermarket and are the add one mounted with angle iron brackets or something different.
How did you make out with your second bolt I got thinking last night about your situation you may want to try a cheap torque multiplier from harbour freight to get that extra torque you need to break them loose they also work well for wheel nuts .
Thanks Eric
-
Tires only rubbed in the back at the air bags, but did rub all the way through the rubber. The fronts do not look like they ever rubbed.
I will get you some pictures of the shock mounts. The mounts look factory made, Bottom mounts are bent to shape and then welded to frame but but a good fabricator could have done them. Some of the welds look great, but one or two are kind of sloppy. I guess that two welders may have been involved, sure looks like the work of two different people.
Persistence paid off with the last bolt. I got both out put the bracket on and put both back on. I had a can of CRC freeze off laying around. Sprayed it on per the instructions 3 times and tried to break the bolts loose and failed. Went back to heat and the bolt broke loose first try. Glad that part is done with. I could really use a pit to work under this thing, but I guess I will be crawling under it for quite a while.
-
Yeah a lot would be nice I use blocks and or heavy jack stands.
I wish I could take it back into where I worked we had several set of heavy truck lifts which were comprised of four portable almost forklift like hydraulic units which you wheeled into place one under each wheel .they were all wired together and work together each corner has an 18,000 LBS lift capacity making lifting the MCI and Prevost bus a piece of cake the best part was you could put them up 6 feet in the air and walk around underneath them.
God I'll miss those things LoL.
Eric
-
Carl
Great to hear you got all your bolts out and back in ok
The unit your installing is it the safety plus or the true centre unit .
Eric
-
Carl
on the Alcoa rims the numbers should be stamped int the rim usually close to the out side near the bead area they run around the rim as they put a lot of info in there like part number max air pressure max weight cap etc.
Thanks Eric
-
Carl,
When I installed a Safe T Plus on my Solitaire, The only way that I could remove the axle clamp bolts was with a 3 foot 3/4 inch drive breaker bar with an 8 foot pipe on it. My 3/4 inch impact gun running on 200 PSI would not move them. The bolts apparently have enough flex in the length between the head and the threads to reduce the impact gun's effectiveness. However, after I got them turning, they came out fine with clean threads.
Gerald
-
Thanks Gerald,
I did get mine out. They do put up a good fight though! The 2nd one took about 12 more tries than the first one and it took at least 10 tries. Bracket is now on will get to the other connections later.
-
Eric,
I am installing the safe t plus with the trim kit from super steer. Basically I can set the adjustment on the safe t plus by pushing a button while driving down the road and it will hold the set position until I set it again. It works off of air pressure. Its kind of like the blue ox one that they discontinued, but that one was electric.
-
Yup I'm familiar with the blue ox unit I installed a couple of those years back but never saw an air unit.
I'll have to look into them
Eric
-
Eric,
The air trim unit that Carl is referring to (the same one that is on my coach), is a design that was originated by fellow BAC member Roy Mueller. (https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Trim-Unit-for-Safe-T-Plus/SS200RM-Supersteer-Trim-Unit-(Monaco-Roadmaster)-For-Safe-T-Plus-Hydraulic-Steering-Control) He licensed Henderson's Line-Up (Super Steer) to market it and he gets a royalty for every unit they sell. I think that all of the machine work and manufacturing is actually done by Roadmaster, the tow bar and base plate manufacturer.
Gerald
-
Eric,
Here are some photos of the extra shocks on the front of my RV. The pictures were all taken from the front of the coach. The bracket on the left is the one with the gussets. The shocks are Monroe Gas-Magnum 65444. It does look like it could have been a factory job, especially the brackets. The welds are not all the prettiest but they have held up for who knows how long.
-
Gerald thanks
I've never seen that unit it's interesting looks like a 20 square inch chamber to lock it .
There must be an air solenoid/ dump valve to allow locking the centring cylinder to be locked and or released.
It would appear it would add a fair bit of unsprung weight but it is a nice feature to have.
Is the control an electric switch or an air valve.
Thanks Eric
-
Carl
Someone's been busy
I see your coach has new torque rods, air bags, shocks and now a steering control.
The shock mount all look good they did a good amount of fab work to mount them.
It looks like it would take quite a bit of work to weld them up and get them welded in there.
On the pass side what is or was the square tube welded to the front of the air bag cross beam?
I was looking at the unit your installing , that's quite a bracket did you manage to get the rest bolted to the tie rod today.
And is the control for the chamber an electric valve or a manual control .
Looks like a great add on.
Thanks again for all your help
Eric
-
Eric,
No idea what the square tube was. It was hacked off before I got the Coach! The air control valve is a 12 Volt electric valve and you are supposed to run a line out of it to dump the air. I got the whole thing kind of mocked up today not sure if it will stay exactly like that. I am trying to get the best angles and the most clearance before I commit to where everything will live.
-
Carl
Have you decided on a place for the switch.
That tube on the cross beam looks like the outside tube may have been factory installed by the welds strange.
Eric
-
Eric,
Right now plan to put the activation switch in the Drivers side console between some of the other switches. It only takes a 1/2 inch hole. The actuation valve should fit in the electrical bay, it about the size of a small match box. I don't know if it was factory or not sure what to make of it. Really I don't need any more projects on this one and if I knew something was missing I would probably be trying to replace it.
-
Does anyone know the axle location was an issue on the 98 Patriots? The tires currently on the coach are the Michelin 275/70R22.5, but those came with the motor home when I bought it back in 2018.
-
Carl
I just thought of something you may want to check while you under there both Jeff Johnson and I have had lower frame issues
Check the passenger side I beam on ahead of the axle there is a track bar connected to the top of that frame to a bracket welded to the top of the I beam the issue is on the vertical web of the I beam it seems that the track bar has worked the I beam back and forth until it has fatigued and cracked horizontally from the front open end of the I beam back about 5 inches .
I welded mine and reinforced the I beam by boxing in the end and under the track rod bracket.
Just something to check
Eric
-
Eric,
You mean here?
Unfortunately/ or Fortunately found that when we were changing tires. Not happy to find, but very happy it did not get worse. Could have been very bad.
-
Bill,
From what I am learning here the front axle was moved forward slightly in 1998. You may want to look at your front axle inner fenders especially the rear side to see if you have any rubbing issues.
You may also what to look at the frame at that rear track bar. I thought that maybe mine was a fluke, but now it looks like that may have been an under engineered area of the frame.
-
Carl
The spot I'm talking about is on the front H frame where the front track bar connects to the I beam.
Eric
-
Carl
I was just under mine last week cleaning and painting the frame rails in that area where the rear track bar connects to the frame and saw no sign of cracks yet I wonder if maybe I should plate it before it does?
I have read on here somewhere that someone had the other end of that rear track bar pull the bracket off the banjo housing of the rear end leaving a hole and leak requiring the entire axle assembly to be removed to weld it .
I can believe that after trying to get up in there and paint that area you can't even get close enough to see the top of that track bar mount.
Eric
-
Eric,
The controls for the Super Steer trim unit consist of a spring loaded toggle switch that is normally open (that I mounted in the driver's left arm rest) , and an air control solenoid that is normally open (mounted in LF electrical bay). The air control solenoid sends full air tank pressure to the air brake can that is used to lock the unit until the toggle switch is activated to send 12 volts to the solenoid which closes off the air pressure and vents the air pressure in the trim unit to atmosphere releasing the lock on the trim unit until the toggle switch is released causing the trim unit to relock in the new location.
Gerald
-
Eric,
I checked the front track rod and I can not see any cracks there. It actually looks pretty beefy and is semi boxed in that area. I am beginning to think that either my frame was modified back at the factory, or that the frames came out way different from each other depending on who was working on them.
As so adding a plate to the rear track rod, I don't see what it can hurt. If you get the tires off it is not super hard to do. I now have over 1/2 inch of steel in that area and I feel better about it being reinforced. I do hope the other end never breaks that banjo fitting though. I am now much more of an expert on Motorhomes than I ever intended to be but there is a certain satisfaction knowing that the repairs were done correctly.
-
Since there is some interest here the SuperSteer trim unit will fit the/ or at least my Beaver Patriot with a Magnum frame. While this is marketed as a Monoco fit I believe that the frames are nearly identical at least for the 8 air bag chassis.
I have included a picture of my unit fully bolted up. I plumbed in the air line from the unit to the front electrical bay today. I can tap into a 1/4 inch air line in the nose of the Motorhome and run it to the dump valve in the electrical bay. I also have power available in the drivers side console so hopefully this will be fairly easy to wrap up tomorrow.
-
Carl
I hear you I don't think any to of these coaches were built the same it seems that they were constantly correcting engineering faults or weak points.
But at least they did try to keep improving the product .
The die hard beaver fans will all tell you they think the true Beavers (those built when Beaver was still beaver and not owned by SMC or Monico were the best quality and maybe they were but like all products they continue to evolve in a response to customer demand anyone who walked through both new and old can see the evolution and engineering marvals we all enjoy.
My ow. Opinion is that for every model year built if you compare fit and finish and quality you will find that the Beavers as good as any and better than most.
On the front axle thing I've decided to move it ahead 3/4 of an inch I have to get some acetoleen for my torches but I've already got the wheels of and replacing the front rotors ,pads and calipers right now I figured I might just as well do the flex lines while I'm there.
Hope your project is going well
Eric
-
I plumbed in the air line from the unit to the front electrical bay today. I can tap into a 1/4 inch air line in the nose of the Motorhome and run it to the dump valve in the electrical bay. I also have power available in the drivers side console so hopefully this will be fairly easy to wrap up tomorrow.
That is a SuperSteer is a nice piece. I assume you will have this on "its own" dump valve (not the chassis dump) so you can unlock the unit while driving to make small corrections for road crown and such.
-
Mike,
Yes it has it's own momentary switch and dump valve. I plan to put the switch in the drivers side console and the dump valve in the front electrical bay.
Everything was included in the kit. Really this kit just screams quality, from the all brass quick connect fittings to the proper amount of 1/4 inch tubing and wire, and all of the nuts bolts and brackets.
It did take a little experimentation to get it fitting like I wanted since it will fit in both sets of bracket holes and the air chamber can be rotated several degrees. I got the most clearance I could above and below while still having good angles. Really the way this kit works is pure genius!
-
Carl
I known it's probably just the camera angle but the air chamber looks close to the fuel tank you could dump the air to lower the coach to check clearence when bottomed out.
Eric
-
Eric,
That is with all of the air dumped out. It is a tight fit under there. If memory serves me right in talking with Henderson's you need 6 inches of space between the top of the tie rod and the bottom of the fuel tank. I had that, so I ordered the kit. They you are supposed to get as much clearance as possible for the air chamber. Mine is now above the tie rod. You also have to keep room over the top which I also have. I also positioned the air fitting so it runs near but does not touch the frame rail. I can't see anything getting to it right now. Unfortunately it is raining here today so I might not get it finished up today.
-
Well Carl
I spent the afternoon taking the front axle out of my coach I ended up torching the nuts off and even then a 3/4 impact wouldn't move them they were seized in the caster blocks so more heat and penetrating oil and they eventually came out .
I have to give it to you I don't know how you got yours out with just a propane torch.
Once I got all the bolts out
I used an 8 ton trolley Jack to lower the axle down and out but it doesn't balance well and even with the hubs, rotors and calipers off I bet it still weights in at about 400 lbs.
Tomorrow I'll get the 5 inch x 1/4 flat bar to place between the caster blocks and the I beam for reinforcement seeing as the holes will only be moved 3/4 inch the old holes will be right beside the new ones.
So now it's time to lay out the holes and do a bunch of drilling.
I'll try to keep you posted.
Eric
-
Eric,
I actually feel better about my fight with the bolts. Yours sound like they were even more determined to stay where they were. I also don't envy you having to drill those holes.
I did finish getting the trim kit put in today! Everything works like it is supposed to, but I haven't road tested it yet. That will be a while. I am about ready to take it off the ramps, just want to make sure It can stay off them for a while before I do. Kind of a pain to get all the wheels centered on them at the same time.
Keep working at the front axle, if it was easy everyone would do it. It hit me today that on a great big motor home you still end up working in a tiny little space.
-
So now it's time to lay out the holes and do a bunch of drilling.
I'll try to keep you posted.
Eric
Take some photos please. A picture is worth a thousand words.
-
I would make sure you use new high grade bolts and nuts to assemble all the front end back together and use Anti-Seize on the threads. We always replaced axle bolts after they were in service for any length of time.
I could never understand why when then build these coaches, trucks or whatever they never use anti-seize on threads. I guess it's too much trouble to add a dab on the threads.
-
Lee
Today I redrilled the frame and made 12 inch long x1/4 inch plates to bridge the old holes and spread the force out over a longer foot print on the I beams I managed to get the axle back in and located today.
The original bolts were 3/4 x 5 inch fine threaded grade 8 bolts so l replaced them with 3/4 x 6 inch fine threaded grade 8 bolts
The extra inch was to accommodate the extra 1/2 of reinforcement plates.
I still have to adjust the drag link .
I'm waiting for new brake rotors and when I get them back on I'll mount the 255/70R 22.5s back on and record the measurements both fore and aft of the tires at the fender wells before I put the new 275/70R 22.5s and record the same measurements and turn the wheels through there range of motion to check for interference with the fender wells.
In the end I moved the axle ahead a little more than an inch to avoid the old holes joining the new ones which I think will be about right as there never seems to be any reports of the tires contacting the front fender wells.
I think the wheel well rub was an issue because the design had the axle too far back and the positive caster and wheel off set work together to create a wider arc on a rear of the steering knuckle swing than on the front hence kicking the wheel assembly back into the already too close fender wells.
I'll post the final demensions when I get it back together
Eric
-
Eric,
Glad you got you axle moved and put back together. I find it interesting that your axle was held on with 5 inch 3/4 bolts since mine was put on with 6 inch 3/4 bolts. I guess that just another example where no two frames were built exactly the same. I think you will be fine moving the axle up an inch which will probably be pretty close to the center of the arch. Hopefully you will have it all back together and rolling down the road soon
Carl
-
Carl
With 6 inch long bolts you must have a ton of bolt sticking up past the nuts I know afternoon mine was all bolted up with the new bolts I end up with about an inch and a half sticking up which means I probably could have lived with the 5 inch bolts.
Eric
-
Eric,
Actually not really! I also had about one inch above the nut. Of course the nut is also about 1 inch tall. I wonder if my blocks are thicker or what is different? With the bracket on I still have about 1/2 an inch of threads showing so perfect.........
Carl